Thank you KDE folks - I contribute in terms of bug reports and attempts at fixes sometimes but this time I am signing up for a monthly donation - I encourage people to do what they can to keep a good thing going! https://kde.org/donate/
KDE: The documentary [video] (tube.kockatoo.org)
blinkingled 7 hours ago
pjmlp 6 hours ago
mistyvales 4 hours ago
brnt 2 hours ago
A week ago I bought a cheap mini-htpc and put Plasma Bigscreen on it, using a phone with KDEconnect as remote. So easy to use! So much better than AndroidTV let alone proprietary crap.
KDE is just great.
fasterik 40 minutes ago
mrinf1nity an hour ago
Linux life, yo.
mongol 5 hours ago
I feel the documentary explains less what happened the last 10-15 years. I recall Trolltech and Qt underwent a series of acquisitions. How is KDE and Qt developed now? Who are the main contributors and sponsors? Any big backers? This information I felt missing.
bayindirh 4 hours ago
Qt is now its own company, namely Qt Group. Wikipedia quotes:
> In 2018, the company had 5,000 customers. Approximately 80% of the Fortune 500 companies are customers of Qt Group.[22]
So it's self-sustaining now.
AFAIK, KDE is still mostly volunteer work, but the way they develop software is pretty robust.
Sammi 4 hours ago
bayindirh 4 hours ago
However, KDE rocks. My colleagues called me "a maniac" once when they see how I use that thing (i.e. Dolphin + KIO + fast window switches + multiple desktops).
ezst 6 hours ago
The KDE4 days were rough, by then I had jumped over to fedora, and that one didn't shy away from shipping very early and unstable versions of it. That had me hopping for alternative DEs, I seriously tried several (and stuck for a while with some) of the minimalistic ones (enlightenment, XFCE, ...) and quickly ended up depending on either KWin, and/or some battery/networking/disks applet from plasma, or configuring something via systemsettings. The plasma desktop itself is fine (I don't mind it so much, I'm not crazy about shell theming and customisations, I do love my global menu on top, though), but what sells KDE for me is all the clever ancillary stuff that makes it "smart and usable" (dealing with Bluetooth, network setup, local and remote drives, audio output, ...), that's where the "environment" metaphor kicks in and elevates the experience above that of a "desktop shell".
exe34 6 hours ago
vanviegen 3 hours ago
Have those actually meaningfully changed in the last couple of decades of KDE? If so, I haven't noticed.
exe34 2 hours ago
pndy 5 hours ago
Back then whenever I had a chance to try a distro with KDE 4, the Crash Handler window would pop after doing stupidest and simplest things within the desktop. Gnome 3 wasn't any better - it was more stable but departing from desktop metaphor to this mobile-desktop hybrid made me avoid it and pick Xfce instead. Which is shame because KDE4 despite the problems looked really well (and still does); I once said here that it had this "younger sister of Vista's Aero" vibe. It's really cool that they managed to bring Oxygen theme back.
aeonik 7 hours ago
I remember the switch to KDE4, and it was indeed brutal. I feel bad that they took as much flak as they did for that.
Plasma has come such a long way, y'all deserve so much for the perseverance and vision.
Thank you for sharing the story!
k0morebi 7 hours ago
pimeys 7 hours ago
cogman10 7 hours ago
6 has been great. If you are a windows or mac user, it's very close to that experience and very familiar.
pimeys 7 hours ago
Can't say the same of Windows or Mac OS.
cogman10 7 hours ago
It's crazy how slow and bloated windows has become over the years.
yonatan8070 6 hours ago
I really enjoy that it showcases all the work that goes into making a desktop actually good, even the small things you bearly notice, things like "When a grouped Task Manager task is flashing to get your attention, opening its group popup now reveals which specific window wanted attention. (Christoph Wolk, plasma-desktop MR #4225)"
A change doesn't need to be big and flashy and make headlines, even small changes deserve to be showcased and credited
wolki 4 hours ago
And yes, a lot of work goes into the small things.
k0morebi 6 hours ago
pimeys 4 hours ago
I asked in the Linux IRC channel some help, gave my root account to a helpful user and very quickly learned about computer security.
sdwvit 8 hours ago
moffkalast 8 hours ago
2III7 7 hours ago
moffkalast 7 hours ago
tredre3 7 hours ago
GNOME is the mishmash of macos and, like you said, mobile design.
moffkalast 7 hours ago
ThePinion 4 hours ago
pimeys 7 hours ago
lunar_rover 3 hours ago
Actually nothing mimics Windows either. Linux desktop almost completely missed the biggest desktop UX advancements happened in late 2000s.
adrian_b 7 hours ago
I have no idea how modern KDE is, because I abandoned KDE due to the KDE 4 disaster. Nonetheless, KDE 3.5 was much better than Windows XP, even if its default configuration was somewhat similar.
Actually I consider KDE 3.5 the best desktop environment that I have ever seen, much better not only than the contemporaneous Windows XP, but also than the contemporaneous Mac OS X. The reason was that KDE 3.5 had an extreme customizability, so everyone could reconfigure it according to their tastes, so it no longer resembled any other desktop environment. Unfortunately, almost everything that I liked in KDE 3.5 was removed in KDE 4 and replaced with rigid choices that I disliked.
After KDE 4, I never had the courage to try KDE again (I fled to the refuge of XFCE), but I hope that it has recovered and now it is at least at the level of its past glory, if not better.
blooalien 7 hours ago
I totally hated that whole mess. It almost ruined KDE for me. The real disaster there wasn't that KDE released v4 prematurely, but that they didn't make it crystal clear to the distro maintainers (and end-users) that it was not ready for "prime time" use yet (it was basically "pre-release"/alpha quality), and the major distros of the time jumped on making it the default (forced it on everyone) when it was still basically utterly broken compared to the prior versions of KDE (which had become overall quite solid and reliable by that point).
toyg 6 hours ago
pimeys 4 hours ago
pimeys 7 hours ago
KDE 6 is really good tho. It's so fast, works great, Dolphin is the absolute best file manager there is...
bityard 5 hours ago
I highly recommend giving it another try, I'm super picky and modern KDE simply delivers the best and most flexible desktop experience, bar none.
snowpid 7 hours ago
moffkalast 7 hours ago
WD-42 4 hours ago
arzig 6 hours ago
What I see with gnomes though is that shedding the customization doesn’t actually make for a more solid project. The fact Wayland fractional scale took as long as it did to stabilize despite mostly working tells me gnome didn’t care about the real hardware that makes up the bulk of what exists in the world.
Similarly, it seems like plasma has a massive technical edge just in handling things like pipewire capture, etc. I find KDE is typically smoother and the gnome overview animation almost always stutters regardless of the computer I use it on from discrete gpu desktops down to mobile things.
So I can say that it seems from my experience the gnome project has naval gazed and built a model of the computing landscape they target that is divorced from reality.
I think your defense gets at the difference between a power user and a ricer. They are orthogonal. Gnome rejects ricing. There is one way. That’s fine. I configure stock KDE by changing 2 settings, 1 of which exists in gnome. But I do need to actually do things with my computers which is why the androidification dig hits.
What I will praise unreservedly is the gnome circle apps and broader which are typically polished focused and attractive.
So to me gnome fails at a desktop but has managed to foster a culture around themselves that leads to solid app development.
WD-42 4 hours ago
App development for KDE is still essentially limited to C++ and janky Python.
flyerbird 6 hours ago
KDE deserves a lot more.
anotherevan 2 hours ago
About eight years ago I wanted to try a tiling window manager, ended up settling on Awesomewm and still with it today, but I still use Dolphin as I've found no other file manager compares. (Or maybe I'm just too comfortable with it to change.)
Also still use Konsole, but honestly, as soon as Ghostty or similar implement being able to switch tabs in MRU order instead of round-robin I'll jump.
I have a low-priority todo to give Cosmic, Hyprland and Niri a go at some point. Would be nice to go back into a fuller desktop experience over what I've cobbled together around "just" a window manager.
madisp 4 hours ago
mpol 6 hours ago
I had no idea Gnome was started without ever talking to the Qt and KDE people. If there was discussion and a solution about the license, the present would be very different I assume. Still, there would be many WMs and DE's, but KDE would be somewhat of a centerpoint.
Also, Aaron Seigo took the criticism of KDE 4 quite hard I would guess. It might be why he is not involved in the project anymore.
einpoklum 5 hours ago
I frankly doubt it. GNOME has pushed many problematic choices which KDE hasn't, or at least hadn't initially. From the anti-usability bent of the UI (few buttons, monochrome over color, non-configurability), to the dependence on systemd, to dropping X in favor of Wayland etc. And this is in part motivated IMHO by the organizational backing for GNOME which is different than KDE.
ahartmetz 4 hours ago
Regarding paid developers, it used to be a few people working for Suse on KDE vs a lot of people working for Red Hat on Gnome. That's not all there is to it because team Gnome also had to maintain GTK and team KDE didn't have to maintain Qt. Gnome had the advantage of having people paid to work on low-level services such as libxml, libdbus and such. AFAIK, today no desktop has many developers paid by distros. You can see it for example on GTK being maintained by like one guy.
Reportedly, external people and companies find KDE is easier to work with than Gnome, and that probably at least played into Valve selecting KDE. Valve's support led to (among other things) KDE having a really really good compositor / window manager. Highly reliable multi-screen support, fractional scaling, high dynamic range, variable refresh rate, frame scheduling for minimum latency (hell yeah), dimming with and without backlight control... a lot of good stuff.
WD-42 4 hours ago
mpol 3 hours ago
I can understand it to start your own thing, but not even starting a discussion seems a bit immature.
WD-42 3 hours ago
F3nd0 2 hours ago
CrLf 4 hours ago
rodolphoarruda 4 hours ago
When I switched to Linux in 2008 (Ubuntu), I felt a big relief from not using Windows anymore, andnever turned back.
ulimn 4 hours ago
Kudos to the guy with the Dell(?) laptop in the video. :)
praseodym 3 hours ago
ElijahLynn 5 hours ago
At any rate, I'm busy right now, but I'm hooked and, and totally going to watch this. Thanks for posting it.
ahartmetz 3 hours ago
(I actually somewhat like the look of Motif, CDE's toolkit. It is maybe the association with reliable, expensive, professional (etc) Unix application software. While proprietary, still much cooler than Windows.)
jordanarseno 8 hours ago
ladyanita22 4 hours ago
pelagicAustral 7 hours ago
blooalien 7 hours ago
You probably want Trinity DE then. It's literally KDE 3, forked and maintained.
lproven 7 hours ago
Want a whole new desktop?
https://www.trinitydesktop.org/
Want a whole new OS with it built in?
Want to keep the KDE 6.x foundations but replace the desktop shell?
pelagicAustral 6 hours ago
lproven 5 hours ago
Other distros bundle TDE, not just Q4OS, but it is not a bad one and a quick way to try it.
Klassik is very new and as yet quite untested.
Me, I would like the original KDE fork used in Corel LinuxOS and later in Xandros Linux to be revived and modernised. For me that was the best KDE ever worked.
(The Bluecurve theme in Red Hat Linux -- before RH _Enterprise_ Linux -- was the best mainline KDE ever looked.)
solveproblemswi 2 hours ago
elendilm 7 hours ago
einpoklum 5 hours ago
WD-42 4 hours ago
vlowrian 8 hours ago
They cover a wide range of topics, from C++ and Java to Node.js, Kubernetes, React, and Vue.js. I particularly enjoyed the Java documentary, which offered fascinating insights into the differences between the Sun and Oracle eras, many of which I never would have expected.
sick_of_slop 7 hours ago
A few times I had to do something on a Gnome system and now it just feels like you're being kneecapped by the devs for no good reason.
tuna74 3 hours ago
Don't worry, they will talk about not liking Gnome even when the topic is something completely different.