New iPad mini (apple.com)

196 pointsby soheilpro19 hours ago495 comments

sheepscreek 18 hours ago

They should stop handicapping the non-Pro displays at 60hz refresh rate. The world moved on 5 years ago. It’s getting tiring now.

RetpolineDrama 18 hours ago

Right? Pro devices should be 240hz now

Danox 12 hours ago

Why? Reference monitors in the production industry aren't.

hbn 18 hours ago

The non-Pro iPhone 17 has ProMotion. I have to assume it's a matter of time before it'll make its way to the non-Pro iPads.

Insanity 18 hours ago

Sure, but the parent comment is saying the “matter of time” should be in the past. I wouldn’t buy a 60hz device today.

hbn 17 hours ago

If you needed a mini tablet you would cause there's practically zero competition

I bought the new 8 inch Alexa tablet the other day, and the price was decent but it's a piece of shit. I only wanted it for putting on a video in bed while I fall asleep but it can't even do that because when you drop the brightness to minimum, the display randomly turns off (not actually locking the screen, it's still running the app and active, you can touch stuff you can't see, but the pixels are turned off)

prmoustache 2 hours ago

> I bought the new 8 inch Alexa tablet [...] for putting on a video in bed while I fall asleep

That's...horrifying.

Have you tried closing your eyes?

opan 30 minutes ago

I've seen some TVs do that, turn off the screen when it gets dark (not talking OLED). Often takes too long and is a nuisance. There's a similar awful gimmick with speakers turning off when quiet, but it results in sound cutting out because it's too slow. I've seen some monitors that even try to do this when using headphones through them.

scrlk 18 hours ago

The base iPhone 17 has a 120 Hz display, I suspect they are going to drip feed it through their products as a cheap spec bump (vs adding extra RAM or storage).

HumblyTossed 17 hours ago

Or this will be an anomaly and they'll drop the base iPhone and keep the E model for the new base, the Air, the Pro and now the Duo.

alwillis 16 hours ago

> I suspect they are going to drip feed it through their products as a cheap spec bump (vs adding extra RAM or storage).

The iPhone sells way more units than the iPad, so it makes sense that it's not a feature for the iPad mini yet.

mtoner23 18 hours ago

Has any non pro consumer ever noticed a display greater than 60 hz. I can barely get the regular people in my life to nice anything above 30 hz or turning off motion smoothing. I really don't see how any of this stuff matters for most people

scotty79 18 hours ago

You don't have to know what Hz is to see that scrolling on some devices is smooth and on other (coug..Apple) devices is choppy. 60Hz feels like a decade old phone.

qlte 17 hours ago

Yeah I wanted to love the form factor of the Mini and thought the 60 he wouldn't be an issue but was reminded any time I used the device.

Actually surprised to learn Apple did the OLED swap and didn't use the opportunity to bump it up at least to 90 hz like the OLED Steam Deck.

smallerize 14 hours ago

If your phone is choppy when scrolling a list on a 60 Hz display, it's not going to scroll smoothly on a 120Hz display.

scotty79 10 hours ago

Phones today have plenty of power to generate 120 screens per seconds. Capping them with a screen is a terrible idea. Smooth form a decade ago isn't the same as smooth of today.

20 years ago I was gaming at 30fps and called it smooth. Now 120Hz feels like bare minimum.

addandsubtract 6 hours ago

I still game at 30 fps and don't really notice it, but scrolling at 30 fps gives me a headache.

pvab3 8 hours ago

iOS at 60Hz is so much worse than Android at 60Hz, I don't know why. maybe Apple did it intentionally to sell more iphones

mrheosuper 6 hours ago

Really, my case it's opposite. I was quite happy with the 60hz on my ip13mini, even if my main phone is Android 120hz phone.

mahboi 5 hours ago

I got a Pixel 7 Pro for work, and it's so laggy. Idk what a 120hz display is for when stock apps like Google Maps are running at like 30fps. I thought maybe some corp security stuff was slowing it down, but I showed it to people at work who have only ever used Android, and they thought it was normal.

Outdated comparison now that Liquid Glass is lagging my phone.

petu an hour ago

For whatever map rendering in Google Maps is capped at 30fps, yes. Google doesn't seem to care.

blehn 5 hours ago

Yeah the Android is capable of 120 but often lower than 60 in practice

kalleboo 4 hours ago

I just tried it on my iPhone right now, and yeah, something seems wrong. Switching from 120Hz to 60Hz on my Mac, I can barely tell. On the iPhone, 60Hz feels more like 30Hz.

sheepscreek 2 hours ago

> it's not going to scroll smoothly on a 120Hz display

It will be buttery smooth between the chops.

ckx 12 hours ago

As someone who occasionally browses Hacker News on a Kindle e-Reader, having a low refresh rate really doesn't matter.

scotty79 10 hours ago

I'd love to have eInk at 90-120Hz. But I agree that 60Hz or 5Hz is pretty much similar expeirience when it comes to scrolling.

adamsmark 3 hours ago

E ink is at 60hz now. Look up Bigme B7 (it's wild!)

benley 17 hours ago

I'm sure there is a point of diminishing returns for display refresh rates, but I can tell you from experience that it is definitely higher than 60hz. 90hz feels meaningfully smoother (on a Steam deck), and 120/144hz (on a desktop monitor in my case) feels smoother than that. Even mouse input latency is perceptibly lower. I've never used a display faster than 144hz but I honestly would not be surprised to discover that one can still tell the difference well past 144hz.

60fps is basically fine as long as you are unaware that it can be any better, but once you find out you are forever spoiled by the knowledge.

lilbigdoot 17 hours ago

Yup. For me up until 90/100ish it's a pretty significant improvement all the way up and after that I don't know if I could notice outside of a fast game or wiggling the cursor over a contrasting color

I'm sure a lot of people now would feel odd if you gave them a 60Hz phone after high refresh has become so common, even if they don't pay conscious attention to that kind of stuff

thesuitonym 17 hours ago

I'm sure mouse latency is a big issue for iPad Mini users.

I know there's a sizable contingent of people who just think a bigger number is better, but realistically this is a device for passively consuming text and video content that is typically around 30 fps anyway. Why waste the battery power on faster refresh?

close04 16 hours ago

The ProMotion screens have variable refresh rate depending on the content displayed. 10Hz to 120Hz for iPhones and 24Hz to 120Hz for iPads. So in theory the power consumption should be even better than a regular screen for static content like reading text.

eptcyka 12 hours ago

Not sure about iPads, but going from a pixel 3 to a pixel 5 made me feel like my pixel 3 was broken. Xr to 16 pro was similar, but that is because Xr was legit broken.

jrmg 7 hours ago

I know you’re being sarcastic with that first line, but touch latency is even more noticeable than mouse latency.

Does the page look and feel glued to your finger as you scroll?

jen20 6 hours ago

Yes? That was true even of the first iPad.

Maxion 2 hours ago

> Does the page look and feel glued to your finger as you scroll?

Yes, for me issues with apps have mainly been in poorly optimized code causing lag, slow loading and the like. The 60hz/120hz thing has never really been a practical issue.

dontlaugh 5 hours ago

Having seen faster screens, I find 120 is where the diminishing returns ramp up for me. I wouldn’t bother with more.

lynndotpy 17 hours ago

I would be surprised if >10% of people didn't notice a difference between 60Hz and 120Hz.

Whether the hardware can keep up with Liquid Glass and push 120 frames a second is a different story, of course.

peesem 17 hours ago

notice, maybe, but care, definitely not. there's a reason TV manufacturers get away with leaving on that awful AI smoothing by default.

mort96 15 hours ago

That argument goes the other way though? The only reason TV manufacturers would leave frame interpolation on by default is that a decent chunk of people notice, those people care, and most of the people who notice are "normal people" who aren't repulsed by it.

If only "pro consumers" noticed or cared... well, those "pro consumers" are the ones who think it looks like shit and would rather have a TV without it.

globular-toast 17 hours ago

Nobody ever wanted a >60Hz display, but once you've used one it's hard to go back. It's like having a higher-performance car. You're now stuck with paying more just for baseline happiness.

It's probably not actually as hard to go back as we think it is, but holding on to stuff is in our genes.

atlasduo 16 hours ago

I keep hearing this all the time, and I think this is an absolutely massive overstatement that you cannot go back to 60 hz after experiencing high refresh rates.

My personal experience is that I do notice the difference - for like a minute - and then I adjust and never care anymore.

globular-toast 15 hours ago

Yeah, we're talking more like reducing the amount of sugar in your tea hard, not quitting heroin hard.

globular-toast 10 hours ago

As an experiment I put my phone into 60Hz after posting this comment. 5 hours later I've remembered. I didn't notice.

zamadatix 16 hours ago

I think Apple has held off 120 Hz for so long precisely because the average person gets a bit of a jolt of "this device is fast, it runs so smooth compared to..." they can't quite immediately place until someone explains it's the refresh rate.

Without this, it'd be very hard for an average user to "feel" a performance difference between an A18 Pro in the Neo and say as far as the M5 Max in a MacBook Pro unless they had a "special" use case which really needed the extra CPU/GPU cores.

Of course, they can't stay forever on that. E.g. with the iPhone 17 they finally flipped the non-Pro over. Probably because it was starting to make the iPhone seem sluggish/stuttery compared to other phones more than it was making the iPhone 18 seem fast. Tablets have never seemed to be as fierce a market in terms of your average Joe comparing them, but I'd expect the same switch to being a liability instead of a tool will happen there as well (if they aren't already late to the game).

pvab3 8 hours ago

I think they made iOS run slower for 60Hz devices. Like 2-3 version ago they changed all the animations and it makes it unbearable to use my iPHone 17 on 60Hz when I used to prefer running my old Samsungs on 60Hz several years ago.

ckx 13 hours ago

I think it only really matters for gamers, but seriously, who's gaming on an iPad?! Use a PC or console!

RaisingSpear 34 minutes ago

It's worth pointing out that mobile gaming surpasses PC and console combined, in terms of marketshare and revenue. https://playercounter.com/gaming-industry-revenue-statistics...

I don't know how "mobile" gamers are using iPads (or tablets), but considering the size of the market, I doubt it's particularly niche.

mahboi 5 hours ago

Someone was complaining to me that Apple took a long time to add 120 Hz displays to phones. I didn't even know what my iPhone had, turns out it's 60 Hz cause it's a 12 mini. I've used 120 Hz displays before. Cannot tell the difference.

7e 5 hours ago

Some people are born with nervous systems which aren’t capable of noticing the difference, just like there are people who can’t see better than 20/20 no matter how good their optical acuity is.

mahboi 5 hours ago

Maybe I'd be able to tell in a blind test if I'm looking for it. Just meant it's not something I'd passively notice.

wlesieutre 5 hours ago

If you have any devices with a faster screen, you can see them side-by-side on https://testufo.com/

Not a blind test, but the smoothness when tracking a moving object is very obvious

sersi 4 hours ago

Thanks for the link, checked it and well even side by side on my mbp, the difference is not that super obvious. 30 to 60 fps is very obvious and night and day. 60 fps and 120 fps, I only notice the difference side by side if I pay attention...

But maybe it's because I'm 40+ with relatively bad eye vision and 20 years earlier I'd be noticing the difference much more.. But I'd say going from 1080p to 4k was a lot more obvious than that...

Maxion 2 hours ago

I've never understood the 120hz hype. Sure it looks a tiny bit better, but I'd trade that in a heartbeat for more battery.

blehn 5 hours ago

If you use a 120 Hz iPhone for 6 months and then switch back to your 12 mini, you'll notice immediately.

apparent 5 hours ago

If something is not noticeable when it gets "better", but it leads people to notice other stuff is "worse" over time, then I'd argue it's not actually a good thing to get.

Imagine if someone said "this food won't really taste better to you when you first eat it, but after 6 months you'll find other food tastes worse". To me, this would not be a selling point.

koyote 5 hours ago

I don't think that's a good comparison.

I've often had new phones that are 'faster' but I barely notice the fastness until I go back to my old phone and realise that my finger-memory needs adapting because things take just a bit longer to load.

I'd assume it's similar for screen refresh rates.

apparent 4 hours ago

That's not been my experience with the refresh rates, and it's not what GP and GGP said either. I have a 13 mini and have bought both 16 and Air. I kept them for 2 weeks and then returned.

When I got the phones, I did not notice any benefit related to screen refresh. I also did not notice any detriment when I went back to my 13 mini after two weeks on a 120 Hz screen.

But if it was as GP said, and it's only something you notice when you go back to a "lesser" screen, then that would not be a selling point in my book.

alsetmusic 3 hours ago

I always wondered why Windows users didn't notice the jagged text in 2001 and see a Mac as obviously better. You don't know what you aren't missing until it's gone.

olyjohn 3 hours ago

I didn't know how bad TV looked in the 90s. We watched a low res 19 inch TV from across the room. Did moving to HD make any real difference in our lives? Do we really enjoy TV that much more? Once the excitement wears off about 20 minutes into watching it, its still the same thing. If the story is good, you get into it either way and forget what you're watching it on.

zeppelin101 3 hours ago

Depends on the content. When people are talking in a nondescript (thing the "12 Angry Men" movie), SD is quite fine. Now compare it to Blade Runner or Scarface. Those movies absolutely benefit from more detail and colors.

biggc 3 hours ago

Watching older TV shows I notice a lot more close ups of actors faces. I’m convinced it’s because the shows were produced with small screens in mind.

apparent 3 hours ago

Yes, I definitely remember noticing how much better TV was when we moved from 20" sets from last century to HD LCDs (and then much larger/higher-res LCDs) over the last 25 years.

And I would disagree that only the story matters. If that were the case, people wouldn't go to the theater (a trend that has started happening in the last 15 years as people have been able to rig their living rooms to give an experience that is nearly theater quality, especially when considering cost and convenience. When we had 20" TVs, they were no substitute for going to the movies.

alexgoodhart 2 hours ago

People had giant TV’s in the past as well. They are cheaper now.

Either way, a larger screen is not the same improvement as higher resolution. And more importantly, the reason people may not go to the movies when they have a home theater system is partly due to justifying the cost of the theater system.

comboy an hour ago

It's the same dynamic as with how we optimize for web pages speed. People don't immediately think that website responding 200ms faster is better. But they enjoy the experience more anyway (even if at some subconscious level) and they end up liking it more and spending more time with it.

With food also you could be incrementally getting better and better food and when you then try v1 it would taste bad.

It seems that we might also be noticing slight degradation more than slight improvement in general? No idea if that's true.

swiftcoder 2 hours ago

I think this varies a lot from person to person. I find the effect to be incredibly subtle - one of my monitors reset it self to 60hz a while back, and I didn't catch the problem for days.

andriesm 37 minutes ago

Scrolling text, I notice IMMEDIATELY

neya 5 hours ago

> I can barely get the regular people in my life to nice anything above 30 hz or turning off motion smoothing. I really don't see how any of this stuff matters for most people

"I don't have an issue with it, so most people also don't have an issue with it"

False Consensus Effect (or false consensus fallacy):

It happens when someone overestimates how much other people agree with them, assuming that their own personal beliefs, values, or experiences are the default for everyone else.

crazygringo 5 hours ago

But in this case, most people really truly don't have an issue with it.

It's a very small minority who cares.

neya 5 hours ago

> It's a very small minority who cares.

Cite your sources, please or you're just echoing "trust me, bro".

drawfloat 3 hours ago

Most people don’t even know what a refresh rate is. They don’t know why it’s measured in hz. They certainly don’t know what 60 vs 120 means.

Klonoar an hour ago

You can’t prove your inverse take tho.

neya 6 minutes ago

Reading comprehension is important. There was no inverse take here. Just pointing out anecdotal evidence isn't enough to draw a conclusion over a larger sample size.

simjnd an hour ago

For doomscrolling or watching videos it makes little difference. For an iPad that advertises drawing with the pencil, the latency of the brushstroke is a massive difference between the two. The more immediate feedback unlocks more confidence and reduces a lot of friction.

bodge5000 10 minutes ago

From what I can tell, it's the thing they notice more than almost anything else. I was recently shopping for a new phone and my brother, who has no interest in tech, kept telling me I need to get the one with it (I forgot the exact term he used, it wasn't 120hz admittedly).

Aurornis 17 hours ago

High refresh rate displays are an interesting feature because most users do not notice the difference.

I can spot a 60Hz display from jiggling the mouse pointer for a second.

I’ve also done side-by-side comparisons of full screen scrolling on 60Hz and 120Hz screens for less technical people who could barely perceive a difference when I was pointing it out, but it took some time to get them to see it.

MKBHD (YouTube tech video and reviewer) talks about this a lot: It’s highly valuable to people like you and me who are attuned to the performance of our devices, but most people don’t notice. Or care!

I would appreciate high Hz displays everywhere, but I admit that Apple has probably made the right consumer choice tradeoff to compromise on refresh rate for these lower end devices where minimum cost and maximum battery life are the two most important features for those who buy them.

vunderba 17 hours ago

I think another thing to keep in mind is that there’s probably an element of sensory adaptation at play here. Like when you wear a watch: you notice it at first, and then you don’t notice it on your wrist anymore.

So if you’re actively moving between a high-refresh-rate device (like a lot of people here with their 144hz monitors) and then one with a lower refresh rate, you’re probably more sensitive (and potentially annoyed) by the discrepancy.

asdff 14 hours ago

You will notice this as soon as you use a low dpi device again for any length of time. First 10 minutes you see the pixels. After that you stop seeing the pixels.

Viewing distance plays a factor too. I realized 4k tvs are useless to me because I can't perceive 1080p pixels unless I'm comparison shopping in a TV show room from 2 feet away (probably why they don't let you experience appropriate TV viewing distances in these spaces in the first place).

asdff 14 hours ago

I'm one of those who can't spot a difference. I've tried to with the mouse trick or scrolling and I just can't see it. I can see the difference between 30fps and 60fps but anything north of 60fps is imperceptible to me. Maybe it's from a lifetime of gaming on toaster specs where I'd scarcely break 25fps.

Danox 12 hours ago

Motion picture film 24 frames per second, old line NTSC 30 frames per second.

seemaze 17 hours ago

While I agree 100%, I'm more interested in the variable refresh down to 1hz that comes with 'Promotion' to save on battery when viewing lots of static text.

MarkusWandel 17 hours ago

If you give me a choice between buttery smooth >60Hz refresh rate animations, and better battery life, I'll choose the battery life 100% of the time. But that's just me. But then again, with the insides of a typical tablet being 90% battery these days (along with a little motherboard along one edge) maybe that's all a nonissue. Phones, on the other hand... my unambitious, cheap (from when you could still get half decent cheap phones) one goes two days on a charge easily, whereas a friend with an "advanced" phone struggles to get through one day with it, often running out during all-day outdoor adventures. Tradeoffs!

cromka 16 hours ago

Phones use VRR displays, they don't always scale up all the way to 120Hz, only when justified by the content.

zamadatix 16 hours ago

What's magical about 60 there? I'd naively think you'd just want VRR and some power saving render rate behavior rather than a fixed target framerate equal to the max framerate for all types of content all the time. The latter gives you neither good power saving nor good experience in most combinations.

Grombobulous 7 hours ago

This tradeoff doesn’t exist.

Look at Apple’s own smartphone lineup. The Pro models with 120Hz screens get better battery life than the low end iPhone models.

You could make up for the difference in battery life with an almost undetectable amount of extra battery capacity from both a cost and size standpoint.

ashkankiani 7 hours ago

I think you missed the point of their comment. The point is they are reducing features (marginal cost difference for them) to provide a worse experience for a cheaper model. I'm pretty sure it's less complicated to have a shared manufacturing process with fewer SKUs than to have two separate displays (if they're even different and not just software locked).

Do you think they couldn't add a refresh rate control to the device if you wanted to have lower battery? They already have variable refresh rate implemented, a much harder problem.

I remember the age of when Intel used to lock down hardware multipliers for overclocking behind the K versions, and GPUs did too. This is a well known practice, and Apple is not above it.

frio 6 hours ago

Even on the 120Hz displays, you can choose to cap them to 60Hz in settings.

html5cat 6 hours ago

the irony is that 120hz screens are actually 1-120hz vs constant 60hz which makes it more battery efficient most of the time except for when you're scrolling

sheepscreek 14 hours ago

To everyone over here stating the pro vs regular consumer argument:

- Apple introduces OLED and talks about deep blacks and 1200 bits

- Why do they think people care about the above and not 120hz as well?

To the average consumer, neither matters much. True. But the above did not make much sense to me.

Danox 12 hours ago

Apple introduced Tandem OLED there is a difference most of the PC world is still using single OLED with all its shortcomings along with Thunderbolt 4.

120hz at 5k requires Thunderbolt 5 (ie better graphics card, more info down the pipeline.

Which is why most of the PC world is on cheap 4k monitors still.

scq 2 hours ago

LG were the first to ship products with Tandem OLED, in the automotive market. Apple were not even the first in the mobile or PC markets, being beaten by Huawei and Dell, respectively.

Most 5K monitors on the PC side are not going to be driven over Thunderbolt, but rather DisplayPort or HDMI.

And the most popular resolution on PC is not 4k, but rather 1080p and 1440p.

catchnear4321 7 hours ago

To the average consumer, deep blacks will look great in the next Avengers movie.

To the average consumer, obsessing over scroll feeling not completely perfect is a distraction from watching the next Avengers movie, if not downright neurotic behavior.

To a prosumer, the value may be obvious but the price may not be worth it. Which can lead to a distaste for the company, for not being a more accommodating company.

To a professional, if you need it, you need it, and you begrudgingly pay for it. Because you need it.

I don’t even know what my phone screen has. Wasn’t why I bought the pro at the time. Wanted the additional ram. So I wouldn’t feel as pressed to upgrade now. (Prosumer, aka neurotic.)

coldtea 14 hours ago

Did it? Most devices are still at 60

codingisfreedom 4 hours ago

Came in to say exactly that. That’s what’s holding me back from upgrading my older Pro. I refuse to go back to 60hz.

Brian_K_White 2 hours ago

Why?

I could not care less about any refresh rate over 30.

You can care about it, but that just means it sounds like a differentiator to me, not something everyone should pay for just because you care about it.

You will have to somehow prove it if you would say that the panel and driver chip are all already ready to do 100+ hz for free by default, and are actually artificially limited, and that that artificial limitation doesn't come with some other advantage like battery life (allowing a smaller battery or less cost in some other way).

seviu an hour ago

For movies, 30fps is good enough, but for a screen which you interact with, the change to 120hz is dramatic. And there is no reason why they should not be adding it.

lcnmrn an hour ago

I always change back my devices to 60Hz. There's no brain here. I get motion sickness easily.

opan 33 minutes ago

Usually it's low FPS (if FPS at all) that causes motion sickness. This comes up in VR discussion a lot. IIRC like 90Hz is considered a minimum.

I get horribly motion sick playing some games like Half-Life 2, Metroid Prime, or the original DOOM. I run my phone at 120Hz and like it. For games, cranking up the FoV tends to help, also disabling effects like viewbobbing, blur, shaking, etc.

I understand this is not fun to experiment with, though. Once I'm motion sick, I tend to be the entire day, only sleeping fixes it, so I'm not usually excited to keep trying to tweak the thing that makes me sick. I tend to dive into settings before playing any game now. I hate when it auto starts the game to appear cinematic.

isoprophlex 2 hours ago

Why are these things always The Biggest Update Ever.

If that were literally true, by now we'd be walking around with devices the size of Mt. Rushmore.

etatester an hour ago

"We just changed a couple things, no biggie, don't buy it" is the reality, but that doesn't sell. Marketers optimize for sales saying what they can get away with.

KeplerBoy an hour ago

That's just the nature of (slow) exponential gains. If the processor gains 1% in flops each generation, the absolute flop increase is always the largest ever. Now consider that a device has tens of marketable metrics and that is always a defensible claim.

illwrks 36 minutes ago

You're not wrong. The video video on Youtube gives a very good (and quick) overview of the marketing behind phone screen glass marketing claims; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YrdI7h2XoY

The same will apply to everything any company is marketing, at the very least it will always be their 'best' 'new' product.

ProZsolt 19 hours ago

A 40% price increase compared to pre June pricing, a 60Hz display (that’s likely just software locked), and still starting at 128GB of storage.

I was actually excited for this, but now I’m going to pass.

sapphire4 19 hours ago

128gb...

abhikul0 18 hours ago

Thanks AI.

I wanted to upgrade my air(gen4) but with these prices it's just not happening. Oh and no support for the perfectly fine apple pencil I already got with it is just....

spolitry 18 hours ago

Value/$ in iPad basically has not changed since 2022. Inflation (general and AI/antitrust-driven component shortages) has cancelled out technical gains.

throwaway270925 16 hours ago

Now I get why they only announced it via press release...

benced 15 hours ago

I doubt the display is hardware locked. Apple is too good at protecting its margin to do that.

tgma 8 hours ago

I would not assume it is software-locked. Display controller on 120Hz ProMotion displays is more expensive. Also, the panel itself is likely cheaper LTPS vs. LTPO.

NDizzle 6 hours ago

Who can afford this shit?

SV_BubbleTime 5 hours ago

I can, easily, wouldn’t feel the cost in any way.

The question you I think should ask is who finds this value reasonable?. To which, I can only answer my myself who can’t see any reason to upgrade from my iPhone 15.

busymom0 3 hours ago

I'm on iPhone 13 and only reason I'd like to upgrade is my battery is poor now and because I have a small crack on the back glass, Apple requires me changing both the back glass and battery which is $500 CAD.

brailsafe 13 minutes ago

> To which, I can only answer my myself who can’t see any reason to upgrade from my iPhone 15.

It's cool that you have extra cash to blow on pointless devices, but you were looking to upgrade from an iPhone to an iPad mini?

apparent 5 hours ago

It's hard to even know what price to use to calculate the delta, since there are different processors with different memory capacities, different CPUs based on memory, and higher price for the nano-texture display.

But yeah, a top-of-the-line iPad mini costs well more than an MBA, which seems kind of nuts. Add on a keyboard case and Apple Pencil Pro and you're looking at $1,500.

fnord77 4 hours ago

it's water resistant

that's huge

rochak 2 hours ago

Such a shitty proposition. Why would anyone buy this.

aucisson_masque 38 minutes ago

They ticked all the boxes.

Add to that a locked OS, and you got a bingo.

micw 18 hours ago

It makes no sense to make the devices so thin and then having a fat camera. This requires a cover to equalize the size with the camera for haptic reasons. Better use this space for other stuff like larger batteries and make the device the same thickness everywhere.

water-drummer 18 hours ago

What about weight?

hollerith 18 hours ago

The extra volume can be air like it is in most consumer electronics.

ezconnect 18 hours ago

It makes sense for the manufacturer, they save a LOT of materials.

WithinReason 18 hours ago

Like nitrogen and oxygen gas that would take up the extra space inside?

PalmPilotProMax 18 hours ago

iOxygen and iNitrogen can be quite expensive, especially if you get the Apple+ option.

chihuahua 16 hours ago

The most advanced form of Oxygen and Nitrogen ever seen. Steve Jobs himself invented the precise mixture of isotopes.

addaon 16 hours ago

Density is insanely highly correlated with the perception of premium quality. No one’s increasing the volume of premium devices beyond what’s needed to hold components.

echoangle 18 hours ago

Aren't most people using their device with a case anyways?

Hamuko 18 hours ago

Not sure about the iPad Mini, but I've really only seen the bigger iPads with a case. There's just so much screen to damage, and you do really want some kind of way to prop up the bigger iPads. I very rarely remove my iPad Pro from its keyboard case.

rendaw 18 hours ago

The carousel 2nd image appears to have erased the camera to make it fit the marketing narrative? That's pretty bold.

pseufaux 18 hours ago

Definitely an odd choice. Especially when two images later has it again

ChrisRR 18 hours ago

It always reminds me of the imac from 15 or so years ago when they were touting how thin the imac was.

In reality the back was curved, and they took pictures from an angle that only showed off the edge of the screen and not how far back it curved

swiftcoder 18 hours ago

> In reality the back was curved, and they took pictures from an angle that only showed off the edge of the screen and not how far back it curved

You only see the thickness at the back from an angle where you can't actually use the computer (and for many people, that whole angle is going to be against the wall). This is the good kind of design - making something appear beautiful without compromising the core function.

I'm distinctly less convinced about ever-thinner mobile devices that I immediately have to slap a case on...

olyjohn 12 hours ago

The older iMacs that were the same thickness all the way across, they still looked good. Except they were some of the best machines to service. Literally two screws in the bottom, the whole thing split in half, and your hard drive, memory and other components were right there. I worked on tons of them and they were fantastic. It saved people money in the long run when they needed an upgrade because it took less time. Even replacing the screen or logic board in them was a piece of cake.

devindotcom 17 hours ago

woah - that's pretty shocking to me actually. in the past they generally have just used flattering angles. This is downright deception.

lotsofpulp 17 hours ago

I presume it is a flattering angle instead of a falsified image. The camera bump is near the one large button, which was furthest from the camera when they rotate it, so the iPad could have been angled slightly to hide the bump. Maybe someone can try to reproduce it after it comes out to see if it is a false image.

frantathefranta 17 hours ago

Yeah, the picture of the iPad is probably taken like /, not like |.

codehorses 17 hours ago

This is literally just a flattering angle. Not saying it's not deceptive, but they didn't "edit" the camera bump out of the image.

devindotcom 16 hours ago

https://www.apple.com/v/ipad-mini/a/images/overview/product-...

this is directly side-on. they've def removed the camera bump. In the initial animation at the top where the hand grabs it too. the bump is very clear in shots later!

wait... could they have hidden it under the hand? and why does that person's thumb seem extra long?! the more I look at this the less I understand it.

estebank 15 hours ago

Perspective is still at play. At arms length, on my phone, if I make it so the flat surface is completely aligned with my center of vision, the bottom side covers at least 1mm of whatever is on the underside. The closer one gets to the phone, the more pronounced the effect.

The video keeps triggering my sense of seeing CGI, but the hiding effect on display can absolutely be accomplished in camera.

cj 5 hours ago

That thumb looks incredibly photoshopped (or AI edited).

daemonologist 17 hours ago

It's the top image on the product page: https://www.apple.com/ipad-mini/

I would assume, however, that they didn't "fake" it - that they instead chose a filming position and lens such that camera was obscured behind the edge of the device (the edge facing the viewer is the far side from the camera). Bit of trickery for sure though.

lynndotpy 17 hours ago

For anyone curious, a diagram with the camera can be found here: https://www.apple.com/v/ipad-mini/a/images/specs/buttons_con...

from this page: https://www.apple.com/ipad-mini/specs/

jotaen 16 hours ago

> I would assume, however, that they didn't "fake" it - that they instead chose a filming position and lens such that camera was obscured behind the edge of the device

I’d suspect the same. From that angle, the camera bump is on the opposite edge; when I hold my iPad Air in the same position, the camera bump is also just about hidden.

That being said, I’d also suspect that Apple chose that angle deliberately.

andai 15 hours ago

Is that a real video or cgi? The motion reminds me of motion tweening.

ch_sm 12 hours ago

Historically, Apple used real photos and video for marketing material, only lit and polished to perfection to create a sort of hyper-real effect. Nowadays, who knows.

HumblyTossed 17 hours ago

The usual narrative is that Apple are meticulous, therefore it is only proper that we assume they did this on purpose.

b473a 16 hours ago

I wonder if at this point a camera bump is too closely associated with quality.

A minimal camera bump means they've advanced the technology to make it small, but no camera bump makes it look like they're using a cheaper camera?

encom 16 hours ago

Nobody cares if a tablet has a shit camera.

Arcuru 18 hours ago

But don't you just need a big camera on your giant tablet? How will you ever manage if you don't have a nice camera on both sides of all your handheld devices? /s

If they put the tiny "front-facing" camera pointed out the back it would be enough for the vast majority of people I imagine.

NikolaNovak 18 hours ago

That's the thing - I genuinely don't understand the user or usage Venn diagram : when and who will 1. Have an expensive ipad with them and require a good big camera, but 2. Not have an equivalently competent phone with them?

Don't get me wrong, I understand it happens - back when I did wedding photography, one of my massive pet peeves were the uncles and grandparents who stepped into the aisle with their massive tablets just as bride is starting her walk... But I do not understand it at all :-/.

I'd absolutely happily completely kill the rear facing tablet camera. I've had at least a dozen android and ipad tablets and I genuinely don't think I took a single photo with them - it'd feel weird and awkward and so ostentious.

(As always as a consumer, clearly I'm in minority here :-})

dylan604 17 hours ago

When I use the rear camera, it's part of a feature of some other app that clearly makes sense to use as a tablet. You're bogged down as it being used as a primary camera as a photographer. There are other needs for cameras other than portraits. Using the rear camera in an AR mode is quite handy in apps.

NikolaNovak 17 hours ago

Fair - thank you for that context! :)

NetMageSCW 18 hours ago

More battery means more weight, and no one wants these to be heavier.

itishappy 18 hours ago

Then just remove the camera in return for nothing. Less weight and a slimmer form!

bryanlarsen 18 hours ago

Since basically everybody uses a case anyways, the important factors are weight and width with the case on. This design makes both of those significantly smaller than your suggestion.

sandcat_ 18 hours ago

The argument is most people use a case regardless, so if it were the same thickness across the device, the iPad would be considerably thicker once in a case. That and weight. I don’t use cases so it bothers me too, but it does make some sense.

threetonesun 18 hours ago

It's still very strange how much work goes into the materials for the case and the ergonomics and weight of holding the devices without a case just to assume everyone will put it in a case. I'm with you on iPads, they get too heavy/thick for their primary uses once in a case. The phones I sort of get but I still think it ruins a lot of the aesthetic choices they make about the case design.

rjh29 16 hours ago

I find it annoying too, I assume it's because thin and light devices sell more (both in promo photos and when used in Apple stores).

My mum's Samsung S23 Ultra has a ridiculous camera bump and rocks back and forth when you use it, even with some thinner cases. You need a super thick case for it to stay stable.

chis 15 hours ago

I've always thought this too. An iPad with an integrated case would be able to fill the entire flat back area with a battery, and just have rubber on the edges where impact protection is needed. The existing design is really optimized around having an impressive experience in the store when holding an uncased product, before you inevitably cover it.

Gigachad 7 hours ago

Why would you want an integrated case? The soft impact absorbing materials degrade much faster than the aluminum. Look at the average ipad users case and it's falling to pieces, you don't want that permanently fixed to the device.

There's also many users who don't need a case. A lot of ipads are POS systems that are fixed to the bench so they don't need a case either.

simoncion 5 hours ago

> Why would you want an integrated case? The soft impact absorbing materials degrade much faster than the aluminum.

Given that the impact-absorbing parts could be [0]

  ...rubber on the edges where impact protection is needed.
and could obviously be designed to be replaceable, either by a handy user or an Apple Technician, why wouldn't you want Apple to design the feel and balance of a device with a case that has built-in impact protection?

Apple's decision to make most of its handhelds out of various grades of "fragililum" has boggled my mind since they sold the first iPhone with an easily-shattered glass back. That choice makes sense for a conspicuous status symbol that people are going to take very good care of... but most folks either end up with one with damage that makes plain how theirs is not the kind of life that makes that possible, or they have installed some aftermarket shell that ruins the effect by covering up the conspicuously fragile part of the hardware.

[0] <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50247743>

amelius 18 hours ago

Yes that stupid camera bump ... I hope those designers lose their jobs to AI. Then again, perhaps they already did :)

dgellow 18 hours ago

Isn’t the bump already used to pack components that don’t fit in the rest of the device body? I don’t believe it’s only used for the camera.

Though I do hate that bump. I just tried a duo and the bump makes it awkward to hold as a tablet

JK-Swizzle 15 hours ago

A lot of their devices do that, but I doubt there is space in the iPad mini bump to fit anything.

The big examples are iPhone Air and iMac.

From my experience, the iPhone bumps are a lot more noticeable than their iPad siblings.

paxy 18 hours ago

Even stupider for iPads because who even is using the back camera? Just get rid of it entirely and the device will be exactly as functional.

dylan604 18 hours ago

WAT. Just because you do not does not mean you get to dictate how others can use it. I know lots of people that use the rear camera on iPads. I'm one of them.

dpark 17 hours ago

> Just because you do not does not mean you get to dictate how others can use it.

No one attempted to dictate anything. They expressed an opinion. HN is a discussion forum. This is exactly what it’s for.

Your point would look stronger if you had only included your last two sentences without the indignation of the first two.

dylan604 16 hours ago

"Just get rid of it entirely and the device will be exactly as functional."

That is not expressing of an opinion but dictating an action. "I think they should get rid of it entirely..." would be the expressing of an opinion.

r_lee 16 hours ago

then everything would be just tiptoeing and nothing would be interesting.... it's not like someone saying that will actually cause Apple to get rid of it

phoghed 15 hours ago

Yes they are just whining into the void about something they can’t change. Great use of everyone’s time all around.

More likely though they’re trying to signal their membership to the in-group that’s always circle jerking on every iPhone/iPad post about SD cards, removable battery, thick small phone, flush camera, etc.

dpark 15 hours ago

Whining into the void is most conversation online is. It’s what you are doing, too.

The top comment thread here is complaining about the camera bump.

phoghed 14 hours ago

No, I’m whining to the source

dpark 14 hours ago

Literally you are not. You whined to r_lee about paxy’s comment.

phoghed 14 hours ago

Literally I am

r_lee 14 hours ago

it's what actually starts conversations.

it's not super "ethical" if you're like triggered by (maybe) harsh opinions, but it gets people to chime in vs just lurking

dpark 15 hours ago

Do you imagine that Apple designers are trolling HN to generate their next device plans?

He’s literally expressing an opinion. There is no in here to “dictate” to.

swiftcoder 18 hours ago

To be fair, the iPad mini is a way better form-factor for camera use than any of the big iPads. I think the only time I've ever used the rear camera on the 12" iPad was to scan a document...

AlanYx 17 hours ago

A surprising amount of people use the back camera for document scanning.

koiueo 3 hours ago

Probably if the (in)famous airdrop was more reliable, people could figure out they can scan with their phone and airdrop to their tablet.

Too bad though, there's no way to put a scanned document onto iPad in Apple's ecosystem other than the otherwise useless camera.

dawnerd 17 hours ago

I use it quite often for scanning QR codes.

jghn 17 hours ago

I've seen asshats at concerts holding their iPads up to record. Bad enough when people hold their phones up, but this was next level.

turblety 18 hours ago

Yeah it's infuriating. I love how even Apple are embarrassed by it, since in the first two animations of people holding and rotating the device they've left off the camera bump, making it look smooth flat.

venzaspa 18 hours ago

If they levelled it out you could surely fit a far larger battery in it too. I'd far rather have a device 1.5mm thicker with a battery lifespan twice as long and no silly bump on it.

matwood 17 hours ago

Would you also like the extra weight of such a device?

paulwilsontx01 17 hours ago

what premium would you pay for this? asking for a friend.

encom 15 hours ago

Zero. Ignoring that Apple prices are already inflated beyond all reason, a larger battery would add a single digit dollar amount to the BOM.

internet2000 4 hours ago

Ok, so they'll continue making thinner devices that appeal to more people then.

encom 4 hours ago

>implying that Apple cares about what users want

bob1029 17 hours ago

I have a hard time believing the camera bump isn't the result of intensive consumer psychology experiments. Setting a bare apple device down on a flat surface feels like chair with a leg sawed off. They need you to buy the accessories. This is part of making the ecosystem viable.

al_borland 17 hours ago

Half the time their mid-year fresh is just a new color, with a huge marketing push. If everyone has a case, colors become a moot point.

I also don’t think I’ve ever seen an Apple exec use a case, as it would imply the phones are durable and a case is needed, which they don’t want to convey. (Bumpers for antenna-gate aside)

belzebub 17 hours ago

The correct answer. The camera bump is intentional and so is building phones that aren't resilient to drops out of the box. What do you mean I can't have a phone with rubber bumpers on the corners?

Zircom 17 hours ago

There used to be an "Active" line of Galaxy phones that had built in umpers before they discontinued them.

addaon 6 hours ago

> umpers

To "b" or not to "b". Apparently the latter.

skydhash 17 hours ago

I have my iPhone 13 in a $10 cover for years now. I don’t like the bump, but I don’t think it’s a scheme to buy covers.

Also my favorite smartphone was a motorola with a cloth back (ballistic something) and a metal frame. No cover was needed for this one.

thiht 16 hours ago

> phones that aren't resilient to drops out of the box

What year is it, 2012?

encom 15 hours ago

>resilient to drops

I would be content if they'd stop making phones slippier than a wet bar of soap. My Pixel 8a is ridiculous, I don't know how they do it. If you have dry hands, it's nearly impossible to hold on to.

saltcured 15 hours ago

Yeah, I added a boring case on day 1 and would have trouble describing the feel of the bare device right now.

Found one on Amazon so I dodge Google's exorbitant plastic markup, and it is a relatively minimalist wrap that smooths out the camera bump and makes it more grippy in hand, in pockets, and on flat surfaces.

The behavior of those slippery phones in pockets is almost the bigger gripe to me. Like they are a new class of motion amplifier, trying to rotate and squirt their way out at the slightest twitch.

jghn 13 hours ago

This made me realize I have an inconsistency I never noticed.

I would never use a case with a phone of any sort. I don't like the extra bulk, and the friction they add is annoying.

Meanwhile I never use a tablet or kindle device without a cover.

PcChip 15 hours ago

like the apple tv remote.. plus those are so sensitive too

ssl-3 15 hours ago

Google Chromecast remote is bad, too.

The curvature on the back of those is such that it's harder to rotate into a position so the thumb can hit the right button than a flat surface would be.

It also means that resting it on the arm of a recliner produces about the same result as just dropping it into the void to begin with: It's going to wind up there either way.

gregglain 2 hours ago

Airpod cases are horrible. Best wrapped a rubbery non-slip case

jazzyjackson 15 hours ago

Nah it’s just easier to pick up a phone when one edge is higher than the other.

izzydata 17 hours ago

This is why I believe the Pixel 10a is the best designed phone to date.

weezing 17 hours ago

It looks like 1:1 iPhone copy minus camera bump.

izzydata 16 hours ago

All phones are just rectangles. The no camera bump is the most important part. It is completely flat on both sides.

alberth 17 hours ago

The iPad Mini has never had a camera bump.

throwaway270925 16 hours ago

Looking at my now "old" ipad mini 2024: you might want to delete that comment - and google picturesearch a bit ;)

ChocolateGod 17 hours ago

> larger batteries and make the device the same thickness everywhere

thermals.

ProfessorLayton 14 hours ago

apple literally uses batteries as thermal mass.

Doohickey-d 17 hours ago

Tangentially related: this is the funniest rant about this "devices with a fat camera bump that don't lay flat" rant that exists: "Why?" - Lazy Posy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP7lYuyGTmg

mandeepj 17 hours ago

> This requires a cover to equalize the size with the camera for haptic reasons.

Not really! The cover just follows the seam. And larger batteries will increase the weight as well, which Apple definitely doesn't want.

gwbas1c 14 hours ago

I always keep my phone in a case... I've had one too many drops, and I'm super-careful.

That being said, even with my Pixel in a case, the camera still protrudes.

It would be interesting to try a camera where the lens extends out when the camera is activated; and flat otherwise.

unethical_ban 14 hours ago

More material, bigger battery = heavier device. For something this size I figure people want something they can comfortably hold in one hand for a session.

Perhaps if they put a very small lip around the camera lens and a physical bump on the other side so the device doesn't rock, at least it would be symmetrical and the glass would be slightly less prone to surface contact.

etatester an hour ago

I'm ok with the bump, but make it not wiggle on a damn table. Google figured this out. The first MacBook Airs figured this out (wedge).

They came up with the plateau, just make the whole plateau flat already.

gyomu 18 hours ago

The original iPad had a 9.7" screen; it was later bumped to 10.2", and today the smallest iPad/iPad Air screen is 11".

The iPad Mini started with a 7.9" screen, bumped today to 8.5".

The iPhone Duo inner display is 7.6", there are already rumors saying a gen 2 or gen 3 might be 7.9".

It's interesting how smooth the iPhone/iPad continuum is becoming.

frantathefranta 18 hours ago

Unlike the iPhone getting bigger, the iPad with the 9.7/10.2/11" screen is still basically the same size though. It's just the bezels getting smaller.

Quick look at the Mini dimensions also seems like it barely got bigger overall since 1st gen.

LtWorf 18 hours ago

I love this dude's "reviews" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTiiZTi3aC8

when he goes "iphone small (big)" "iphone big (bigger)" and so on. He has a bunch of them.

1-6 18 hours ago

What isn't smooth is the separation between the iPad and iPhone teams. I'm pretty sure new things being visited on the Duo such as the split keyboard interface have already been tried on the iPad side.

klausa 18 hours ago

This iPad mini is actually slightly smaller than the previous gen; it's just the bezels that got smaller; the device footprint didn't grow.

idreyn 17 hours ago

Still waiting for a 13 Mini refresh :(

mi_lk 17 hours ago

iPhone Air is leaps and bounds better (source: owned 13 Mini)

rwbt 17 hours ago

I reluctantly upgraded to the Air from the 13 Mini after I accidentally dropped it in water. After 3 weeks of using it now, I completely agree.

wffurr 16 hours ago

It's bigger in all the wrong ways: https://phonesized.com/compare/#2739,1863

wtch98 16 hours ago

Make it 3/4 an inch narrower and an inch shorter and I'll get one

red369 6 hours ago

The iPhone Air is larger than an iPhone 17 in height and width. Every non-plus/max iPhone since the 13 Mini came out is smaller than the Air in height and width. Wouldn't they be a more logical upgrade than the Air?

The main body of the iPhone Air is thinner, of course, but including the camera bulge, I think it's thicker than all non-pro iPhones up to the 16.

Is there something about making the main body thinner that makes the iPhone Air more comfortable to hold than other smaller phones? Is it the weight? The 17e is only 4 g heavier than the Air, and the 16e is only 2 g heavier.

I have never been interested in the Air because of the size, so I can't even remember if I have picked one up in an Apple Store.

mrheosuper 6 hours ago

How is it better exactly, apart from the new SOC ?

alberth 17 hours ago

The outer dimensions are largely the same, it's mostly a reducing the bezel size to increase the display size.

jghn 17 hours ago

There's an obvious gap where the iPhone mini used to be. Please fill that gap Apple!

gtirloni 16 hours ago

I see what you did there!

dd8601fn 15 hours ago

I kinda feel that way too, but I can see why 3% of iphone sales wasn’t a compelling case at apple.

s4i 2 hours ago

An easy fix, just name it iPhone 18 and all the people will buy it because it’s the default. Have a Max for all the actual big screen addicts.

krtkush 18 hours ago

I am so glad that I bought so much new tech before 2025 that I can make do without them for a while now.

These prices are insane and there is no sign of things slowing down.

dgellow 18 hours ago

I would happily give up on the entire AI industry in exchange for more affordable hardware. No hesitation. The worldwide inflation resulting from the AI rollout is shameful to say it politely

joshstrange 18 hours ago

I've thought a lot about that actually. I have a number of hardware purchases I'd like to make but I'm delaying due to the insane prices. That said, would I give up LLMs for the prior prices? No. Prices will come down eventually once more factories come online (it's just slow to bring up a new factory/fab, especially for RAM) and LLMs are such an awesome tool that I'll take the short-term pain of higher hardware.

dgellow 17 hours ago

That’s if you’re considering your personal situation. The increase in hardware is impacting every single institution that needs computers. Smaller hardware companies with low margins cannot operate in the current situation. That means less consumer choices, new projects delayed or cancelled. The impact on less developed countries is of course exacerbated. Hospitals, schools, government agencies are getting less for the same level of spending. And of course that results in worst services, worst infrastructure, more expensive services and goods

pxoe 16 hours ago

Maybe institutions and companies are gonna have to get smarter at making use of stuff that they have instead of just churning thru hardware. It's hard to see it being sustainable anyway to be constantly turning over hardware every few years if not yearly. In a way, this chilling of consumerism is kinda neat.

9x39 15 hours ago

Luckily absolute performance still exists, it's just that we've normalized shipping less efficient software slopped out because there'll probably be new silicon in a few years so it doesn't matter.

Commodity hardware is plenty powerful and can be taken advantage of should prices signal efficiency is important again.

pants2 17 hours ago

The Apple TV really threw me, $299 new but last gen started at $129

AndroTux 17 hours ago

In Europe, it’s closer to $400, which is downright insulting for what is essentially a cheap smartphone without a screen or battery.

Marsymars 17 hours ago

It's especially bad if you're non-American with multiple TVs.

e.g. I've got three screens in my house (office TV, living room TV, basement projector) in Canada — upgrading to the latest Apple TV on each of them would cost me $1,287.

criddell 17 hours ago

I have two televisions - living room TV with an AppleTV and bedroom TV with some Roku device. I'm going to buy the new AppleTV and put it in the living room, then move that AppleTV to the bedroom, then recycle the Roku (finally, I hate that thing).

It should be less expensive but I rely on it (cancelled cable TV and just have streaming now) and so I'm just happy they are still working on it.

TheHalfDeafChef 16 hours ago

Depending on what you subscribe to, streaming services are now as expensive (if not more) than cable was if you got premium channels. I hear also Disney will add ads to all tiers as well.

criddell 16 hours ago

I'm sure we're spending more money, but the AppleTV just works so much better than any cable box I've ever had.

bombcar 7 hours ago

The key is to subscribe to Jellyfin, but even THAT is getting expensive if you buy drives.

clintonb 16 hours ago

You can choose to not upgrade, or forego Apple TV altogether.

I say this as an Apple shareholder.

Marsymars 16 hours ago

> You can choose to not upgrade, or forego Apple TV altogether.

Sure, and I can also complain about the pricing being unreasonable — which I also say an an Apple shareholder.

jachee 7 hours ago

Root-cause analysis suggests blaming the monopolists hogging all the silicon fab.

dannyobrien 7 hours ago

Given the criticism the Duo has had for not being a very good iPhone[1], I was hoping for a foldable iPad mini, which would seem to dodge those problems. Maybe in a year or two (does anyone remember the iPod Touch, which was an iPhone without the phone bit? I loved that thing.)

[1] - See "far the worst iPhone experience ever" Daring Fireball review: https://daringfireball.net/#:~:text=one.%20The%20outer%20dev...

chaostheory 6 hours ago

I expected the Duo to closer to the size of a normal iPad. I didn't realize it was a foldable iPad Mini that's also a phone. imo It's too small for the bulkiness that it adds. Also sacrificing the camera was not worth the fold.

etatester an hour ago

The point of foldables is that they fit a big screen in your pocket. What's the point of a foldable display? Fit a 10 inch in your tiny purse? Very hard sale for double the price.

We will eventually see "foldable MacBook" because I genuinely want a 20" screen in my backpack or even just a smaller 16" MacBook. I guess not coming before 2035

jmull 18 hours ago

AI Doomer: AI is going to rise up and destroy humanity!

AI Optimist: AI is going usher in an era of unparalleled productivity and achievement

The reality: RAM/Chip prices are way, way up. The starter iPad mini is $700.

kleiba2 18 hours ago

The cheapest configuration of the original model was $329 in 2012 [0]. Even when corrected for inflation, that would still be less than $500 in today's money -- so quite a bit less than $700!

Is the comparison unfair because today's model is much more powerful than the one from 14 years ago? Perhaps. But perhaps it shouldn't be compared to the past, but to its relative competitors?

[0] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2012/10/23Apple-Introduces-iP...

xattt 18 hours ago

Not really unfair, as the basic use case is still the same for either model.

A toilet from a hundred years ago in the same product tier serves the same function as one today. Old models were also more expensive when adjusted for inflation, but today's toilets can tackle more turds with less water.

qlte 16 hours ago

The alternative approach leads to those "costs have dropped by 7 orders of magnitude in the last 50 years" style of deceptive graphs popular among people with an agenda to insist AI memory price inflation isn't a real problem.

HumblyTossed 17 hours ago

Oh I long for the days when every 2 years prices for compute FELL.

Gigachad 7 hours ago

On the plus side, devices are designed to last longer, be more repairable and be updated for longer than they were in 2012.

The upfront cost of a device is less important than the total cost of ownership, which highly depends on the lifespan of the device. An ipad that lasts 2.5 years needs to be half the price of one that lasts 5 years.

mahboi 5 hours ago

In 2012, that iPad mini ran YouTube videos at the same resolution as today but without ads!

650REDHAIR 3 hours ago

…progress?

paxy 18 hours ago

How does AI explain the mini being $250 more expensive than the regular 11-inch iPad?

dofm 17 hours ago

When did Apple last refresh that? (not a rhetorical question sorry!)

paxy 17 hours ago

It got a price bump 3 months ago.

hbn 16 hours ago

The iPad mini is not a mini version of the base model iPad. It's more or less a scaled down iPad Air.

paxy 14 hours ago

Sure, but that tells you that the upgraded specs and pricing is a conscious decision made by Apple, not something forced by AI. Making an entry-level small screen equivalent of the 11-inch iPad is always an option. They’re choosing not to take it.

hbn 13 hours ago

Memory and storage is expensive as hell, so they're gonna ration it for their more expensive devices.

Same reason this year, for the first time ever, Apple announced their new Pro phones (and the ultra-expensive Duo) but no base-model iPhone 18. They're paying more for memory so they're gonna use it on the devices where they make more on a sale.

m463 15 hours ago

> How does AI explain

  12 reasons why the iPad Mini is $250 more expensive than iPad 11-inch:

  1) ...

mrweasel 17 hours ago

> RAM/Chip prices are way, way up

So that cloud providers can have servers and GPUs sitting unpowered in warehouses and datacenters.

dofm 17 hours ago

Right. The prices are up for Nvidia’s benefit (and Micron, Sandisk by extension).

I know it’s now a trope to say “an incoming Democratic Congress should…” but there are really serious questions to ask about the means by which Nvidia is securing such a radically high value buy-and-hold strategy, and whether it amounts to deceptive channel stuffing.

The whole tech industry is using apparent demand for Blackwell GPUs as a proxy for AI demand, when this is a wholly broken metric because Nvidia seems to be gaming it, and everyone (consumer and business alike) is paying more as a result.

flaunf221 17 hours ago

> The reality: RAM/Chip prices are way, way up. The starter iPad mini is $700.

This has tiny 128 GB of storage and unknown but obviously not too high amount of RAM. At best 16, but probably less.

That's just Apple beeing greedy as usual.

spiderice 17 hours ago

Apple was "greedy" before too and were able to sell it cheaper. So obviously they're being impacted by increased storage/memory/whatever prices.

flaunf221 17 hours ago

More like they were not able to find a pretext to sell it for more.

I can open my local store and will see shitty 8/128 Android tablets for less than 150 euro. If memorypocalypse was the main reason for pricing new ipad mini as it is, the budget tablet segment would be completely dead because manufacturers just wouldn't be able to afford memory at all.

mrheosuper 6 hours ago

Is it new model or from last year, the shortage only began in last year.

asdff 14 hours ago

The whole supply demand spherical cow model of capitalism really breaks down when suppliers decide they'd collectively use their cartel to not engage in demand and instead gouge prices.

KetoManx64 10 hours ago

It doesn't, capitalism is the free association without coercsion. When the government can mandate that you cannot sell certain GPUs to customers in specific areas or that your model is too scary and you must shut it down and can give or take government contracts that are work hundreds of millions or billions of dollars, and the federal reserve will bail out the banks If they make mistakes, you have a crony capitalist environment that has very little to do with the free market.

throw0101c 18 hours ago

Hopefully as Apple's own N-series Wifi chips mature and get rolled into more products, they will include GPS/GNSS capabilities into the chips, as right now if you want that functionality you have to purchase the "Wi-Fi + Cellular" variant:

* https://www.apple.com/ipad-mini/specs/ § Location

Edit: to perhaps make it more clear, I meant still sell a +Cellular variant with the C-series chips (or whatever), but move the GNSS functionality into the N-series chips. So you'd have a non-cellular and a cellular, but both would have GNSS.

drfloyd51 18 hours ago

I wouldn’t hold my breath. I think the +cellular is enough of a differentiator that Apple will always charge for it.

The buyer is also signing up for a monthly payment. So clearly they have the cash to make an “extra monthly payment” or two up front.

jillesvangurp 18 hours ago

It's part of it. Another part of the reason is patent related royalties that they have to pay to the likes of Qualcomm, Nokia, etc. for any device that has a working 5G stack inside of it. Apple actually has had their own 5G modem implementation for a few years now; they clearly have the technology to deliver this with a clean full in house chip design.

But any device that has that embedded would have some royalty overhead added to the BOM. Which is why they've always had ipads with and without 5G and have so far never really bothered with adding this on laptops (which actually would make a lot of sense from a technical point of view). Operators would probably love that because it's a nice up-sell opportunity on monthly subscriptions. And with soft sims there would not be a need for a hardware sim card.

For the same reason, you don't see this feature on many other laptops either. There are a few obviously but it's a less common feature than you'd expect given how important good connectivity is to most laptop users.

kotaKat 18 hours ago

I'm partially wondering if we're going to see a cellular Macbook this week on a C1/C2-derivitive modem for 'mobile computer' use.

The C3 modem is just around the corner though, as is the satellite network Globalstar's been building behind the scenes for it.

https://investors.globalstar.com/news-releases/news-release-...

It's now live and on-air for testing...

dylan604 17 hours ago

So the reason they have not released a +cellular MBP is down to them not wanting to make royalty payments? What do they care? They just roll that payment into the +cellular price bump. It's not like they are dipping into their own billion dollar cash on hand balance.

jillesvangurp 17 hours ago

Do you have a better reason? I think the price difference is probably too high to justify the feature. I don't see any technical reason why they wouldn't do this. But patent royalties and additional overhead related to device certification would definitely add some complexity and cost.

dylan604 17 hours ago

No, but there's a lot of examples of "I don't have a better reason" regarding Apple decisions. I know that there's a lot of bad blood between Apple and Nvidia hence AMD GPUs every where before the M-series chips. Clearly, they are tired of of their cellular vendors, otherwise they would not have developed their own chips. But they already have the cellular relation for the iPhone/iPads, so what would extending that to allow MBP inclusion mean that makes it a non-starter for Apple?

jillesvangurp 14 hours ago

I can only speculate. But my guess is that they don't anticipate additional mac sales if they were to ship this feature. So, the only reason to do this for them would be if it would bring in more revenue. And given the cost overhead related to patents that I outlined, it might just not be that interesting. My guess is that a lot of the agreements they have for this might cover iphones and ipads but not laptops.

It's not just Apple. 5G stacks in laptop are just very uncommon. Most vendors seem to independently come to the conclusion that they are better off not bundling that. Of course the difference is that Apple now has their own modems and chips for this. Which might change things but so far hasn't.

The reasons Apple want to vertically integrate everything and own it are easier to grasp: chips, firmware and software made by them are easier to control and upgrade by them. With qualcomm, they are basically getting them, their development teams, their supply chains for chips on the critical path to shipping products. And they are outsourcing what is a pretty major part of the whole phone experience to a third party.

Apple has been working on their own 5G modem for many years before they shipped it. I don't know for sure but I would not be surprised if efforts for that started when Steve Jobs was still alive even. This was always the logical move for them to make as soon as they got the idea of doing their own chipsets for their phones.

enos_feedler 15 hours ago

Is it possible its related to data traffic with carriers?

judge2020 7 hours ago

I would say this is the main reason, given tethering has caps, but maybe also how cell tower capacity probably would not do great with a whole new product market segment that's also high-bandwidth during the LTE days. With 5G's promise of increased capacity and 6G on the way, maybe it'll be possible soon enough.

throw0101c 17 hours ago

> The buyer is also signing up for a monthly payment. So clearly they have the cash to make an “extra monthly payment” or two up front.

I know of pilots who buy the +Cellular simply for GNSS and do not get a separate plan.

Charging more for the C-series hardware is understandable, but if there's enough of a 'transistor budget' it would be nice for the GNSS functionality to be more universal (since the N-series seems to be going into everything).

nakovet 18 hours ago

Last iPad Mini I bought in 2015 was 32gb for $379CAD, one today 11 years later is $949CAD for 128gb, 2.5x over 10 years, I know there is different tech, inflation and times are different but I always though the mini as the budget option, now with this recent releases Apple is just going for: it's expensive because that's the only way we can keep growing....

r0fl 18 hours ago

8.7% annual inflation is pretty high but most luxury goods have kept up with that

Check Porsche 911 / Boxster pricing in Canada over those years or Chanel bags

Luxury inflation > normal inflation

paxy 18 hours ago

Computers are a “luxury good” now?

SkyeCA 18 hours ago

Ones made by Apple? Definitely. There are other cheaper options.

mahboi 5 hours ago

The cheap ones have gone up in price even more as a %

jkahrs595 18 hours ago

In what world is the latest and greatest Apple product NOT a luxury good?

Grombobulous 17 hours ago

If we remove the last year of AI-related storage/RAM cost increases, the rate of inflation is way lower if not flat.

The iPad is not the only device that has had price increases in the last year.

r0fl 15 hours ago

Yes, Apple iPad minis are luxury goods

mahboi 5 hours ago

Luxury inflation is more than normal inflation, but this isn't a luxury even though it's not necessary, and the price isn't going up due to the steady cause of inflation (money creation).

ezconnect 18 hours ago

Their budget iPad I think got 70% increased in price a couple of months ago. I was planning to upgrade my iPad mini to the normal 11inch iPad and when I checked the price it was nowhere near the price I remembered I last saw it.

andjd 18 hours ago

The mini is not the budget option, at least not anymore. The base 11" iPad starts at $450 in the US (and can often be found on sale for less). It is the cost-down with lower-spec components, and is probably a more compelling product for the consumer looking for the cheapest iPad option than a cost-down mini would be.

__rito__ 18 hours ago

It is a very rare event what is going on right now. The prices are mostly up due to memory shortage.

al_borland 17 hours ago

I wish this was somehow listed as a separate line item with the price, assuming prices will normalize at some point. I don’t want these prices to be considered the new normal, even after memory prices come down. I think transparency in the pricing would help with that.

jachee 7 hours ago

> I don’t want these prices to be considered the new normal

“Oh, ho, ho… you sweet summer child.” —Capitalism

mahboi 5 hours ago

Plenty of prices have risen and fallen before

addaon 6 hours ago

In 1974, soda prices spiked with a sugar shortage.

- They never came back down.

- Diet soda and seltzer prices spiked too.

Barbing 18 hours ago

> I always though the mini as the budget option

Keeping up appearances:

Lease from $14.99/mo. per month for 36 mo.months with Apple Upgrade Footnote ※

rjrjrjrj 18 hours ago

Exchange rate is also a factor.

The iPad mini hasn’t been the budget iPad for quite a few years now. It is more like a small iPad Air now.

lcnmrn an hour ago

I wish Apple did an iPhone Uno or iPad nano — basically a wide phone with camera cutout, status and dock on the right or left side. Yes, two design versions for both left and right handed people. It will be so amazing for multi-tasking on mobile by quickly changing between apps with a permanent dock.

xrd 18 hours ago

I bought a used iPad for my daughter for her birthday about a year ago for about $500.

M4 chip.

Her mom's cats chewed on the corner of the screen. It won't turn on.

The cost to replace that screen: $1200.

Apparently OLED screens break completely if just a single pixel is damaged.

ChrisRR 18 hours ago

I don't think that's unique to OLED. There's all manner of things that could've gone wrong when breaking a corner in both LCD and OLED

dreamcompiler 17 hours ago

That happened to my MBP without OLED. Fortunately I had Applecare.

red369 6 hours ago

You mean that the corner was damaged, not that a cat also chewed on the corner of your MBP, right? I'm still in shock that a cat would chew on glass and metal enough to damage it - two cats doing it is too much in one day!

dreamcompiler 3 hours ago

Yeah it was my cat. One bite and the screen turned black. He was a kitten at the time. Kittens chew on everything.

gib444 17 hours ago

> The cost to replace that screen: $1200.

That's Apple saying to you: omg, stop being so poor and wasting our time, just buy another one

FireBeyond 13 hours ago

Yup. Had an MacBook Air. Slight water damage near charging port. Laptop functioned correctly on AC power. Extensive battery diagnostics: Healthy. Just the charging circuit saying "go ahead, charge device"...

At the Genius Bar expected something reasonable, realistic... $300? Parts and labor.

"So we have a quote for you, $950. Perhaps we go out and look at the new Macs together?"

90% of the cost of the laptop to replace the charging port.

makeitdouble 17 hours ago

Only Apple can properly replace these screens and pair the parts (FaceId etc), so setting the standard repair cost high enough helps push people toward Apple Care eligible new devices, handicapping the second hand market.

That has been the case basically since Apple Care existed IMHO.

alwillis 16 hours ago

> Only Apple can properly replace these screens and pair the parts

Not true. Apple has a self-service repair program for most of its products, including the iPad mini.

All the repair manuals are available online and you can buy official Apple parts. [1] They'll even sell or rent the tools you will need.

[1]: https://selfservicerepair.com/en-US/home

makeitdouble 14 hours ago

You're right, the self-service repair program exists. It doesn't clear neither the pairing issue nor parent's hurdles though, as Apple parts are still required , you can't get any similar enough screen you'd want, and they'll be priced the same as in Apple Stores.

As far as I remember, the self-repair kits only make sense in very niche cases (I think repair shop get a different contract ?) and won't work around any limitations Apple puts on parts or repairs.

xrd 11 hours ago

I did not call Apple, this was a local "fix my iPad" shop.

It was funny, the guy was narrating as he is searching saying "Whoa, this is the most I've ever seen... Wow, oh man... Hold on..."

I knew it was not going to be good.

I asked if there were any DIY options for me.

He said I could possibly find a used iPad online and swap that screen. But, given the insane prices of the replacement screen, I assume the secondary market for a salvageable iPad that works is really tough.

At this point it makes sense to just buy another used iPad.

asdff 14 hours ago

Her mom keeps jungle cats or something?

mint5 12 hours ago

your ex’s cat chewed on the corner of an iPad? Does the cat have some more interesting stories of destruction since it apparently likes chewing on metal/glass, a higher level of destruction setting than the standard cat.

Grombobulous 7 hours ago

Because you gave the context clues of M4 chip and OLED screen and $1200 repair cost, this means you somehow snagged an iPad Pro 13” with the cellular modem for $500, which is way below market value.

The current version of this model of iPad purchased brand new is $1700.

In other words, this is the highest end iPad available. Any other lower spec model reduces the repair cost lower than what you were quoted.

mrheosuper 6 hours ago

Where do you find an iPad with M4 and OLED screen for $500 ?

rconti 16 hours ago

Apple: Just fix the software. I have an iPad Mini (6?) and it's clearly just such an orphaned product. They're not even TRYING to make it usable. The on-screen keyboard takes up the majority of the screen when in landscape mode. In portrait mode, the "drawer" on the left side of the screen takes up so much space in apps like Maps/Flighty that it covers the location you're currently at.

They've clearly given almost no thought into how the (already marginal) iPadOS renders on a smaller screen.

asimovDev 18 hours ago

Ctrl+F "ProMotion" 0 results

non-starter

twostorytower 18 hours ago

Seriously, what’s the point if it doesn’t have ProMotion? 60hz feels so sluggish.

cyanydeez 18 hours ago

I really dont understand the hardon for refresh rates.

This isn't even a "people dont see that fast".

It just, it seems more like a perceptual addiction to a trivial feature. A penis measuring contest more than a useful advancement of technology.

throwaway85825 18 hours ago

It's not just the maximum refresh rate, the variable refresh rate allows for power saving.

afavour 18 hours ago

That's a problem already solved by having a lower refresh rate, though. You can't get extra battery drain from 120hz when your device can only achieve 60hz.

drfloyd51 18 hours ago

But can save more by dropping the refresh rate to 1hz and upping to 30, 60, 120 as needed.

goodmythical 18 hours ago

I don't know about for phones/tablets.

The only genuine performance increase I could see is if you're using it for drawing/notes because the Apple Pencil samples at 240/s so you would see a difference in drawing smoothness between 60/120/240hz screens. This would mirror the use case in fast-paced and high action games - more info for your eyes sooner allowing better reaction times.

Also, isn't ProMotion just branded VRR? Allowing for lower battery use in static/low change applications?

speak_plainly 18 hours ago

There is an entire field of study dedicated to this sort of thing called Psychophysics. It’s hardly trivial. Perception isn’t an absolute measure of sensory input as it’s influenced by context, comparison, as well as prior experience. Improvements in one experience can change the standards by which we judge subsequent ones. These principles have had profound implications across entire industries. A good primer is the book Priceless: the hidden psychology of value by Poundstone.

asdff 13 hours ago

And what is it being used for though? To better scroll instagram and various message app inboxes? We needed 120hz for this? I mean a lot of people including here on HN are just buying this to scroll x. It is an iphone after all, walled garden means that's about all the sort of things you can do with this thing.

kingstnap 18 hours ago

It's not a trivial feature. The Class A surface on an iPad is the screen.

If you plan to look at moving things, like scrolling, which is a central part of using the device, 120fps makes the scrolling less blurry and therefore more pleasant to look at.

This is like asking why people have a hardon for cars with nicer materials for seats and interiors if a normal cheap plastic interior could pass all the same crash tests.

poly2it 18 hours ago

It's probably very subjective, but I actually feel dizzy using my phone in 60 Hz mode.

dawnerd 17 hours ago

It’s weird too I use a 60hz monitor all day and it doesn’t bother me. But if my iPhone switches to 60 it’s really noticeable.

ezconnect 18 hours ago

It is a real thing. If you experienced the shift from CRT to the first generation of LCD screens and the CRT bros are not moving to the new technology because it gives them headaches and the majority of people are OK with the refresh rates. The 60fps to 120fps perception is hard to explain.

BenFranklin100 16 hours ago

I agree. I have an iPhone 18 Pro. I don’t notice the difference between it and my older, non-ProMotion iPad that I use side by side.

It’s a penis measuring contest for display enthusiasts, much like gold connectors are for audio enthusiasts.

RASBR89 16 hours ago

Im usually big on refresh rates but this one doesn’t bother me. I move between 60hz iPads and iPhone to 120hz iPad Pros and my mind doesn’t register a difference between them.

I can see the 120hz nice scroll when I’m paying attention but I’m normal use on these devices I forget about it. Basically it wouldn’t be a dealbreaker for me but I agree it should probably be the standard

jerojero 18 hours ago

you don't need promotion if you're going to use it for movies, but OLED is a huge improvement in this regard.

the price is a bit high, but that's all apple products.

i do think this means a lot of android tablets on this form factor are going to start coming out with OLED screens as well though, which is good, as they will be much cheaper.

bbatha 18 hours ago

120hz is nice for movies because you get non fractional frame pull down for 24, 30, and 60 fps which the more common video frame rates.

vallerie 18 hours ago

I think the Mini's primary use case that benefits a 120hz screen is art apps, but the artists I know would prefer OLED over 120hz. For entertainment, video is video, and games on tablets often lock to 30 by default to preserve battery life.

For the iPad Air (especially the 13" model!) I agree 100%.

pprotas 18 hours ago

60hz is the reason i sold mine. Otherwise I loved that little ipad

codq 13 hours ago

Yep, I've long been envious of my wife's iPad Mini for the form factor, but my eyes want to scream when using 60hz refresh.

This is a major reason why I'm ponying up the dough for the iPhone Duo.

The iPhone Duo is as close as we're getting to the iPad Mini Pro we've all been asking for.

declan_roberts 18 hours ago

Apple likes to slow roll features out. It's kind of a necessity when Wall Street expects you to put out a desirable hardware version every few years. Gotta protect that runway!

dawnerd 17 hours ago

I was hoping the next mini would. Guess I’ll keep my 6th gen around.

enos_feedler 15 hours ago

Same. But thats what drives me to duo. Probably the whole point

throwaway270925 12 hours ago

Shouldn't it rather drive you to a Samsung Fold?

fg137 18 hours ago

> in an even thinner and lighter design

Never once did I hold my iPad mini with a case and think, "damn this thing is heavy"

deadbabe 17 hours ago

I thought the same thing about iPhones, then I got an iPhone Air and can’t imagine going back to those fat bloated bricks people lug around daily. Worse, they put a thick case on it making it even more portly, because the aluminum bodies dent so easily. iPhone Air is what Steve Jobs would have wanted: a super thin strong Titanium phone that doesn’t need any case to feel complete.

hbn 16 hours ago

Just because it's good doesn't mean it can't be better

The novelty of how thin my M5 iPad Pro is still hasn't worn off. Sometimes it's just nice to hold some tech in your hand that feels like it's from the future.

fg137 12 hours ago

Since when have we established "thinner and lighter" equals "better"?

In the case of iPhone Air and Galaxy Edge phones, there were notable compromises to achieve a thinner body, for which many people don't consider an improvement.

Granted, I have not seen or used the new iPad mini, and I don't know if any such compromise has been made. But probably should leave it open until we conclude this is a plus.

vallerie 18 hours ago

I'm shocked Apple haven't acquired Procreate yet. It's nearly always in iPad marketing material. Personally I know so many artists who've bought iPads, and the only app they have installed is Procreate.

rumori 17 hours ago

It’s possible they simply don’t want to sell. ProCreate parent company is extremely successful on its own, it’s possible being part of Apple wouldn’t bring anything to the table for them. Looking at some apps Apple acquired it’s not clear that being part of a mega corporation benefits creative tools.

AndroTux 17 hours ago

Everyone and everything is for sale for the right price.

freeplay 16 hours ago

Especially when you have Apple money.

rjrjrjrj 16 hours ago

Seems like they made their decision when they acquired Pixelmator.

rao-v 4 hours ago

There’s a tiny segment of folks (like me) who have been waiting a very long time for an 8ish inch OLED tablet. For some reason, until mid 2025, they were extremely rare, even in the Android multiverse. I’m excited because I read a ton with white text on black, and an OLED display (especially with this nanotexture stuff) will make a huge difference.

kennyadam 18 hours ago

$700? Dang. Prices are climbing so fast.

Zigurd 18 hours ago

That plus an iPhone cost less than a Duo. But yeah that's expensive.

steelframe 18 hours ago

No need to involve dang in this. He's had nothing to do with these price hikes.

amelius 18 hours ago

Yes, those AI subscription prices have a hidden cost ...

r0fl 18 hours ago

I saw a lot of people say the homeview is stupid, they can get an iPad and a dock

The homeview at $299 is the great value Apple product by far, compared to the price of new iPads

The 512 nano texture iPad mini with a case and pencil and Apple care and tax and tip in Canada is well over $2000!!!

paxy 18 hours ago

I don’t see homeview being worth it unless they allow app installs. $300 for a display that shows photos and smart home controls is kinda pointless. You can’t even put up your home assistant dashboard on it.

Tagbert 17 hours ago

I think there will be be app integration, but hopefully no App Store. We know that apps can work on HomeView using CarPlay. Not sure that is sufficient long term, perhaps just to jump start things. They may need to enhance that library to allow more kinds of apps to work with HomeView.

Right now, I think they are bringing out an MVP and waiting to see how people react to it and what kinds of things turn out to be useful. When they launched the Watch, no one was sure what kinds of things we would want to do on it. It took a while to see what was useful. I think a model where apps on your phone provide HomeView widgets like the Watch might be better than writing apps specifically for such a device.

paxy 17 hours ago

Sure, but it’s weird to consider a device to be good value when the reason for that value is features you hope will launch in future updates maybe years down the line.

dkdbejwi383 18 hours ago

You tip for purchases from a shop in Canada? Or is that a joke that's gone over my head?

r0fl 15 hours ago

That was a joke lol Tipping culture is so insane in North America

tacker2000 17 hours ago

The homeview is DOA, I'm sorry. Who is the target for this?

There is no app store. I mean maybe they will add one later, but still until that happens I really dont see any use case besides setting some kitchen timers.

Yes, smart home is a thing, but tons of people need apps like Hue or Shelly to control their setup.

r0fl 15 hours ago

Old people

I’m buying one for my parents and in-laws

They have iPads

iPads are never charged and in some random spot in their being empty houses

This will make sure my kids can FaceTime their grandparents whenever they want

That’s worth $300 to make my kids and my parents happy

bigyabai 8 hours ago

> This will make sure my kids can FaceTime their grandparents whenever they want

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that charged iPads are not the primary constraint here. If you can't trust them to keep their iPads charged, there's a good chance that you'll come back in a year and the HomeView hasn't left the setup screen, or is sitting in a box somewhere.

StrictDabbler 14 hours ago

I haven't been in Canada in a while. I don't understand why you are tipping on an iPad mini. Are you Doordashing it? What changed since I left?

crossroadsguy 3 hours ago

> Apple gives iPad mini its biggest update ever

That's it! Hitting "Buy". This was all I needed to read. Even though the ™ symbol is missing it will do.

al_borland 17 hours ago

I don't like when they force a storage upgrade just to get a matte screen. I have no need for more storage, but would like a matte screen. As a $100 upgrade for nanotexture, it already seems steep, but forcing it to a $200 upgrade due to a needless storage bump is too much to ignore.

I also question what is required for nanotexture. I read the iPhone Duo has this in a replaceable screen protector, effectively. A replacement, under AppleCare is $15. Are we being charged $100 for a factory installed screen protector? If so, why does that need to be tied to certain levels of storage to reduce SKUs?

scrlk 17 hours ago

Nanotexture on non-folding displays is etched glass.

addaon 6 hours ago

Higher brightness and nano-texture make this a must-have for ForeFlight. Too bad it'll probably require a new yoke mount.

dkdbejwi383 18 hours ago

Costs as much as the full-size one did until recently.

declan_roberts 18 hours ago

Tech price appreciation is really throwing me off!

rramon 17 hours ago

Is Stage Manager with an external monitor possible with this new iPad Mini or still artificially limited to M chips? I mean it’s more powerful than the M1 iPad Air which supports it.

jerojero 18 hours ago

OLED is really good for media consumption, and IMO, this form factor is one of the best for carrying around in trips and watching movies on the car/plane/train/etc.

But the price is a bit high, that's the history of Apple though. On the other hand, I think this particular screen is probably going to be sourced by cheaper small android tablets at a much more competitive price, and if you're using it for media consumption, there's no difference between an Apple and an Android tablet.

So I'm happy to see OLED on this model.