Yeah because Apple has broken that idea over and over and over. The anti-unix unix.
Make Tmux the OS (matduggan.com)
gizajob 7 hours ago
someonebaggy 7 hours ago
gizajob 7 hours ago
None use the file system in anything like the way their unix underpinning would have files be understood or organised for users. Hard to even know where your files are without asking the app to deal with them one by one. Predated phones and even Spotlight doesn’t do a good job of showing/knowing where your files are.
someonebaggy 7 hours ago
Files aren't physical.
dankobgd 7 hours ago
gizajob 7 hours ago
someonebaggy 7 hours ago
gizajob 6 hours ago
rovr138 6 hours ago
import the images from both libraries (https://support.apple.com/en-us/119920)
View > Utilities > Duplicates
or use jdupes or czkawka on both directories.
gizajob 6 hours ago
skydhash 6 hours ago
This makes it a pain where you want to have a custom configuration. Like moving the cache to a ramdisk. My NVME disk is plenty fast, but rarely I want my browser cache to persist across a reboot. It's a pain to move the cache to /tmp/firefox-cache as an example (/tmp is a ramdisk on my laptop). Also a pain to backup profiles.
bigstrat2003 6 hours ago
goalieca 6 hours ago
dpark 6 hours ago
Huh? Windows XP was the first NT-based release for home users. It was a milestone in stability.
sporadicism 6 hours ago
bigstrat2003 6 hours ago
dpark 5 hours ago
It was also far more secure, but it was still not nearly secure enough.
> ”Upon its release, Windows XP received critical acclaim, noting increased performance and stability (especially compared to Windows Me)…”
sporadicism 5 hours ago
> It was also far more secure, but it was still not nearly secure enough.
That's one way to say "plagued by a decade of botnets."
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP
Now google XP blue screen of death. Still alive and well then.
If the bar is Microsoft's most loathed release, then I guess you could call it stable and secure.
dpark 4 hours ago
Weird that contemporary articles praised its stability then.
> That's one way to say "plagued by a decade of botnets."
No, it’s a way of saying that it introduced real identity-based security isolation to the OS. Prior to this every user had full access to the entire system incisions everyone else’s data who shared the system.
Unfortunately Windows XP was not hardened to the reality of the internet. (Nor were any of its predecessors.)
anthk 3 hours ago
kergonath 5 hours ago
What most people remember of XP now is what it became after a couple of years of fixes and improvements, and the contrast with Vista.
dpark 4 hours ago
Yes, it became more stable with the service packs, but it was a significantly more stable OS out of the gates than anything consumer users had been getting.
Rampant malware was a separate (and very significant) issue.
orbital-decay 3 hours ago
jrm4 4 hours ago
It started with the Ipod and the weird mp3 system, to the Ipad not shipping with a real file manager and is all so very obviously deliberate.
somat 6 hours ago
Is the core the database(the filesystem) and the apps roam around in it, or is the core the apps each with their own database.
I grew up with noun focused operating systems, which is probably why I prefer them. Here are your things and you can use various actions on them(some valid some not). And as such find the verb focused ones unpleasant to use. Here are your actions each includes it's things. But where are my things? It does not matter, each action knows where it's correct things are. But I want my things, I know they are in there somewhere. (fights the phone for a while)
glitchc 5 hours ago
The first option is evidently better for the user. The filesystem is a neutral entity with a well-defined interface, whereas each app is on its own journey. For a period of time that journey may align with the user's workflow, and both are happy. But there inevitably comes a time where the app and the user diverge, and for the user, it is imperative that they be able to switch to another app without losing access to their data.
To a user, the data matters most, and the filesystem, because of its neutrality, is the best model for access.
throwaway290 5 hours ago
glitchc 4 hours ago
andrewflnr 4 hours ago
analog31 5 hours ago
WhyNotHugo 5 hours ago
MithrilTuxedo 5 hours ago
I use Bash via Git4Windows as much as possible, but even there... `cd ~/git; cd ../Downloads; cd ../git` doesn't work because `..` from `~/Downloads/` is `~/One Drive/`.
It's... non-Euclidiean.
michaelsbradley 17 minutes ago
peder 3 hours ago
Fnoord an hour ago
With tmux as an OS, you end up with a TUI web browser (there are several). While you can watch pictures and videos in a terminal, and vim keybinds are strong in a TUI web browser (reducing a learning curve), I wouldn't want the option to run a GUI web browser to be unavailable. So it makes more sense to have a tiling WM/DE, where with one keybind you to your terminal being fullscreen to your terminal multiplexer. But sometimes you want it floating! Then you put it (back) to floating. I also think that you can set up sway pretty much like tmux, except for the resuming/session part. Although my sway config (back when I ran sway) had an auto start of different windows with different applications.
Rooms 1986 project reminds me of Project Looking Glass [1] (or rather: the other way around). Rooms probably also inspired SGI IRIX' fsv (as seen in the movie Hackers from 1995), and Doom as a file manager. Still, I think the 3D exploration of your computer is neat. I don't know if VR glasses allow for this (they probably do), and I also don't know whether the sacrifice (it costs money, and you lose vision of your surroundings) is worth it. As such, I'm usually reminded AR is the better option, except if you want to be fully immersed. Which you very well might want to be while working.
Now, is all of this necessary? Opinion. I believe the macOS HIG is already so good (with other HIGs getting closer) that the answer is no. And for a quick terminal, you can just have a quake-like keybind (Ctrl + ~). On macOS, too, there's multiple ways to add tiling.
(There's also zellij, tmux clone written in Rust with sane defaults.)
treadmill 4 hours ago
ssivark 15 hours ago
pjmlp 15 hours ago
ThatMedicIsASpy 7 hours ago
ggm 15 hours ago
emacs -> screen -> tmux -> tmux integrated into <terminal app>
appears to be the path.
I guess the fork was "emacs before X" to "emacs after X but we retrofiited some ideas from X into the terminal" -> <the rest is history>
pjmlp 15 hours ago
Especially Zmacs and XEmacs, and how their features eventually found a way back into Emacs proper.
anonreplier 14 hours ago
the_gipsy 9 hours ago
rolymath 9 hours ago
I've used paperspoon but it's very laggy. Paneru is better but 3 finger swipe up or down shows all windows on all workspaces which makes it impossible to pick the window you want. (which paperwm didn't do)
Arubis 8 hours ago
incanus77 7 hours ago
anonreplier 4 hours ago
Cyph0n 7 hours ago
taosx 6 hours ago
chrchr 5 hours ago
seemaze 5 hours ago
phromo 15 hours ago
StrLght 15 hours ago
I honestly don't get why they ignore existing options due to configs. Give it a try, maybe it won't be _that_ bad.
e-topy 12 hours ago
Most of the non developers I know don't want to write prose, let alone a .ini file
skinfaxi 9 hours ago
chickensong 15 hours ago
johannes1234321 10 hours ago
lobofta 10 hours ago
chickensong 2 hours ago
Even if someone isn't inclined to be computer literate, a shared understanding that the interface can be tailored to your preferences and that many flavors of interface exist, would lead to improvements IMHO. This is already normalized in the Linux world, but that world is very small.
johnhamlin 7 hours ago
bigstrat2003 5 hours ago
chuliomartinez 10 hours ago
skydhash 6 hours ago
xlii 15 hours ago
It is multiplexer so survives app kills, and interface is heavily keyboard driven.
I tried running email in it though resigned (and guess what, wrote my own) because HTML email support is must have nowadays.
npodbielski 14 hours ago
handfuloflight 8 hours ago
rsync 2 hours ago
I don't find this to be the case.
I use (al)pine exclusively and with only three or four hacks/workarounds manage a normal, modern email workflow.
Unlike SMS where my unix-based telecom results in green bubbles, in the email world there is not even that small indication that anything is different on my end ...
mattbrewsbytes 6 hours ago
I think people put way too much emphasis on things like this with conclusions that they are faster and therefore its better. There is Pareto's law and a point of no return on invested time with this type of endeavor. I would feel better if people started off with "I did this because I can and I like doing things like this" vs. some argument that its better in some way.
chickensong 2 hours ago
erelong 19 hours ago
Virtual desktops might help some people where you just ctrl+alt+left/right to move to them, instead of multiple monitors (where applicable). Or just fullscreen apps and I think it's like ctrl+tab to switch between a bunch of them
The only way to keep all the files on the filesystem is probably to avoid the silos
I guess we could ironically / unironically ask AI for some OS design tips for our setups haha
lobofta 10 hours ago
michaelastreiko 4 hours ago
serbuvlad 15 hours ago
I will forever hate Arc for popularizing vertical tabs the way they did.
Vertical tabs were a thing since at least the Tree Style Tabs extension (2007), except the Tree Style Tabs were infinitely cooler, because they were a tree, not a list, and right click->open in new tab, would open the new tab as a child of the current tab.
So you could have a hacker news tab during your break, start opening a bunch of articles, read through them, simply un-expand the HN sub-tree, go to work, and then re-expand it during your next break.
Because of Arc, everyone is now implementing vertical tabs, but no one is implementing Tree Style Tabs, and, probably no one ever will again.
lemontheme 15 hours ago
scottg489 15 hours ago
serbuvlad 13 hours ago
captn3m0 12 hours ago
serbuvlad 7 hours ago
lproven 9 hours ago
And the latest release also brings back a native RSS reader?
Give it a look. You might like it.
gloosx 2 hours ago
Make nvim the OS
kmarc 12 hours ago
However...
> Different people use windows totally differently.
The older I get, the more impatient I am with this. In the industry, we normalized that high paid software developers (who are way better programmers, or infra people than I am) waste hundreds of engineering hours with their absolutely broken window management, and command-tab hell. Whenever I have to witness a screenshare of a colleague, my time is also wasted.
I wish this would be an interview gating: show us how you manage yourself in this big monorepo, switching tasks, windows, tabs, desktops, SSHs etc. Do not normalize noob time wasting.
Different people also use pianos differently. Yet, we don't appreciate a noob pushing random keys around it. It would be unpleasant to the ear, just how unpleasant (painful) it is to witness macOSs/gnomes bubblegum horror of sloppily animated chaos.
Back to my point: windows (as in viewports) are with us for many decades. I don't care if you tile, stack, infinite scroll them. Just be productive. Invest upfront in learning, be fast, and be able to explain what I you try to show me on screen.
There will be no one size fits for all, and that part I understand. But please have more dexterity with your desktop abilities than my grandma.
Brian_K_White 10 hours ago
Everyone else around me blazes at the simple act of typing. And far fewer but some have powerful vim setups where they can do inarguably useful things fast.
You would be agonized to watch me type code.
But for 30+ years it never mattered. I spend 10x more time thinking than typing, or jumping around refactoring 300 things all over the place every 5 minutes, and propduce results that work, are efficient, and fail far more gracefully than everyone else.
(I'm not claiming to trade iteration for get-it-right-the-first-time, I obviously iterate and I'd even say the correctness of the final result is mostly the result of iteration).
Maybe it doesn't conflict with your point because even so I wouldn't exactly say I'm no more functional than your grandma, so maybe typing and vim/ide-ricing are just a couple of exceptions that I can afford to get wrong as long as everything else is good.
Though I don't know what else there even is to be "fast" at. I don't think I really even understand how one can be good or bad at mere window management. ssh-ing? What is there to that? knowing how to manage keys?
However, all in all, I like this. Even if it means I'd currently fall on the wrong side of this idea, I think I agree with this idea to have an expectation of basic competency with the tools in any field one would presume to get paid for. Maybe even now I should just suck it up and learn to type and develop a powerful vim setup.
jagged-chisel 9 hours ago
Things like “uh, where’s that file again?”, “the window disappeared”, etc shouldn’t happen during screen sharing, pairing, and demos.
In other words: be a good presenter.
Brian_K_White 9 hours ago
kmarc 6 hours ago
OTOH presenting is a different skill. Maybe I should have elaborated that as a field expert of a (not-so-)niche thing, I often get contacted by random colleagues who will ask me to "let them quickly share their screen to show what the problem is". Their demonstrated horrific inability to "do computers" is surprising and upsetting.
Therefore I thought about this a lot in the past. Maybe the windows concept is wrong? Should there be more experiments like OP proposing? And slowly I start to believe, that probably the windows concept is okay, since you and me and thousands of others are capable, and it's just a skill issue.
fsloth 8 hours ago
Besides it’s good to take things slow when face to face with people.
phalangion 7 hours ago
sharkotter 8 hours ago
kmarc 6 hours ago
I'd rather observed correlation of experts who can navigate their GUIs / TUIs, and being good software engineers.
jwrallie 21 hours ago
I think a modern computer should be able to update its software, kernel included, in a way that the state of the userland could be kept, even with an actual reboot.
noman-land 17 hours ago
rockbruno 15 hours ago
nmstoker 11 hours ago
agumonkey 9 hours ago
setopt 8 hours ago
agumonkey a minute ago
drooopy 12 hours ago
stasomatic 2 hours ago
Just be clear, FFS. These parasitic innuendos are annoying. Be frank while you are at it and tbh jic.
I stopped reading after that.
cess11 14 hours ago
Personally I don't think it is normal to be unable to double click on i3wm in some graphical apt wrapper and then pick it from a scroll list at login. People use shortcuts in Windows all the time. Having more than one workspace might have been foreign to most a decade or two ago, but these days external monitors are common and workspaces are basically that.
I've seen people who I would not consider abnormal go from weird misconceptions about i3wm to efficiently sending around windows between workspaces and screens in a day. If you want you can also click your way through it, and configuration is generated for you after you decide whether you want Alt or Super as the core command key. Defaults are rather sensible, so you don't have to fiddle with them until you've got some experience.
Historically user interfaces on web pages and in Windows and Mac OS:s has changed quite a bit and people who I think most would consider normal managed to adapt.
nottorp 14 hours ago
The assumption that everyone is using a laptop is interesting there.
OtomotO 15 hours ago
I've been using Tmux and later Zellij for many years, while I was on Ubuntu's Unity, then Gnome, KDE, i3 and lastly sway.
Until I switched to niri (https://github.com/niri-wm/niri) ... since then I haven't used tmux at all.
Very weird, come to think of.
danrobi 10 hours ago
dreamcompiler 4 hours ago
This is why as a Mac user I don't use those apps. Nor do I use Photos or whatever iTunes is called now. I've been burned too many times by having my work locked away in some kind of proprietary Apple database. Yes, you can usually export stuff but that's not a solution. You export your library on Day 1, do some work, and then export it again on Day 2. Quick, what changed? Where's the primary source of truth?
File systems are universal and files are portable. Any app that uses a proprietary database as its primary source of truth is an app I won't be using.
deadbunny 10 hours ago
teddyh 9 hours ago
deadbunny 9 hours ago