MongoDB CEO resigns to join Meta (reuters.com)

357 pointsby dieka day ago297 comments

everfrustrated a day ago

"effective immediately" means either... he doesn't have a contract with a notice period, or he does and is willing to forfeit any benefit from it like share options, etc.

One reason might be the share price has collapsed and he has no confidence in it coming back (pretty scandalous if he's the CEO!), or Meta has offered him inducements > what he's walking away from.

Good way to burn a lot of bridges. He's never going to be hired as CEO by anybody for the rest of his career.

dingdingdang a day ago

> He's never going to be hired as CEO by anybody for the rest of his career.

Maybe he had enough.

b112 a day ago

He's never going to be hired as CEO by anybody for the rest of his career.

I wish I had your belief in sensible logic like that.

But I suspect you're wrong, even though you shouldn't be.

orsorna a day ago

>He's never going to be hired as CEO by anybody for the rest of his career

I'd eat my shorts if this was true. But even then he is likely set for life with his wealth, pre Meta offer.

bloodyplonker22 a day ago

Right. He was "set for life" pre MongoDB even. He was an early investor in Datadog.

reticulates a day ago

The halo effect of being in the orbit of a product on the way up (as Muse appears to be) can offset almost any wrong. If Muse succeeds, he could get a CEO job anywhere he likes.

john_strinlai a day ago

>He's never going to be hired as CEO by anybody for the rest of his career.

just need to spin the departure as being decisive and able to make tough decisions and he'll be back in the ceo seat in no time. especially if muse does well.

mrits a day ago

Not sure why he'd want to take the pay cut with being a CEO

blitzar a day ago

or "resigned to spend more time with the family" aka was fired

reenorap a day ago

He is likely being promised a chance at succession to CEO.

babelfish a day ago

no chance, will definitely be Mosseri, Mark is not handing the reigns to an enterprise guy

steveBK123 a day ago

Agreed an enterprise guy is not the next CEO but I doubt Zuck has any near term succession plan.

Mosseri is basically the same age as Zuck, and Zuck still seems extremely hands on.

Check back in 10 years to see how things are going, maybe its Wang or a currently unknown 20 something.

0x1ch a day ago

CEOs manage to fail upwards their entire career, I don't suspect this will be any different. Just some "nerds on a forum" who got annoyed with his personal decisions.

latchkey a day ago

100% this. The CEO at my last company squandered hundreds of millions of investor funds, and now he's the CEO at another company taking on hundreds of millions in debt.

Another example: current CEO of Cerebras, is an SEC felon from a prior company (for cooking the books), and now he's CEO of a public company.

olivermuty a day ago

Lol! Wat? Got more details?(On cerebras)

esafak a day ago

https://www.nhbr.com/ex-riverstone-execs-face-criminal-charg...

https://www.sec.gov/enforcement-litigation/litigation-releas...

latchkey a day ago

Thanks! Always amazing that people don't know this stuff. Oh and the current CFO of Cerebras was the CFO of Bird, another giant failure.

disqard a day ago

Can you name the CFO? I could not find any such person.

latchkey a day ago

This is what I put into google: "cfo of cerebras bird"

It came back with Bob Komin.

urams a day ago

Feldman "failing up" is being the CEO of a public company he _founded_.

"failed up" is currently defined as founding a company that goes public and being its CEO. I'd love to know what success is.

latchkey a day ago

In my eyes, success is a profitable company.

urams 17 hours ago

Guy who thinks a kid's lemonade stand is a greater success than creating a new product category and technology in the hardware space.

latchkey 7 hours ago

lemonade stands are staffed by 11 year olds and there can be one on every corner.

these stands do better than cerebras, which is an 11 year old deeply unprofitable company building a technology that no other company has bothered to try to even get close to replicating.

rajman187 5 hours ago

Cerebras got lucky with the ban on NVIDIA chips due to "security reasons" in the middle east, securing a massive deal with the UAE's sovereign fund. Of course, the leaders made a nice donation to the Trump crypto fund and coincidentally the ban on NVIDIA was lifted. That presented a danger for Cerebras, but they also pivoted almost entirely to an inference as a service company, maximizing tokens/sec metrics on a variety of open weight models. Then they landed the contract with OpenAI which has bought them another lifeline, and helped paper over the trail of fraud that delayed the S1 and IPO for a few years. Fascinating story indeed!

latchkey 3 hours ago

The problem with the pivot is that with only 44GB of memory, you can't run models unless you nerf them or you scale the hardware out horizontally, which takes up a lot of space, power and even more cost.

This is why their API has dumb limits on it. I'd estimate their $/tok cost around $4-5000/mtok based on hardware alone, which is insane. Sure, it is fast, but if it is heavily quanted, expensive, and can't scale, you're going to be in a world of pain.

gfody a day ago

yea this isn't "and another example just off the top of my head" - this guy co-founded seamicro then cerebras both pretty badass companies, he was a vp of marketing not ceo when the sec sued not just him but the entire executive team. trudging up 20 year old nonsense to try and punch a guy who legit deserves his success is bullshit

latchkey a day ago

Cerebras is an 11 year old unprofitable company with a stock that is down 30% since the IPO, in the hottest market ever.

They've pivoted many times over the years trying to make "wafer scale" work in a variety of use cases, and they still haven't gotten it right.

By the way, the CTO is dumping stock left and right and the stock is down nearly 5% today alone...

https://www.marketbeat.com/instant-alerts/insider-cerebras-s...

gfody a day ago

that's an automatic, prenegotiated sell off - calling that dumping is worse than calling the ceo a felon (at least one is technically true). are any of the big ai companies actually profitable? how has cerebras not gotten their chip right? they're the only company shipping wafer scale inference hardware, and they're shipping to the largest labs in the world. and it works - I use cerebras.ai the token rate is amazing

latchkey a day ago

Sell offs don't have to happen, and $25m isn't some small amount of money.

> how has cerebras not gotten their chip right?

It doesn't scale, and won't ever be profitable. They pivoted to inference, which has the unfortunate (for them) side effect of also requiring a boat load of memory. This is why they just partnered with AMD to offload onto their chips.

> I use cerebras.ai the token rate is amazing

Ah, investor. Explains your responses.

malfist a day ago

Not supporting GPs argument, but one can appreciate the t/s on cerebras.ai without being an investor.

latchkey a day ago

...if you can get access.

gfody a day ago

> $25m isn't some small amount of money

it kind of is, relatively - sean might just be having a galaxy blackhole supercluster installed at home for all we know

> It doesn't scale .. They pivoted to inference

they have more options than non-wafer-scale solutions, the chips are going 3d and meanwhile they benefit from the same interconnect progress as the wholly memory-bound alternatives

> Ah, investor. Explains your responses.

physician heal thyself like your not out here tryna manifest your short

latchkey a day ago

> they have more options than non-wafer-scale solutions, the chips are going 3d and meanwhile they benefit from the same interconnect progress as the wholly memory-bound alternatives

I hear that CS-420 will be amazing.

imdoxxingme 25 minutes ago

down 30% since IPO, up 1000% since 2 years ago. Okay ...

latchkey 15 minutes ago

They were public 2 years ago?

ownagefool 10 hours ago

Makes sense really.

Only needs to work once for him to get a passive payoff. Sitting in your lane usually doesn't buy you that.

meowface a day ago

I am sure this poignantly describes some CEOs, but my guess is this is probably empirically false on average.

(I'd ask some LLM to research it but the people who would be doubtful it's false significantly overlap with the people who distrust LLMs, so I'll just leave this as a random guess and nothing more.)

__MatrixMan__ a day ago

Feels like survivorship bias to me. CEO's fail up, except those that fail down, and the latter group aren't CEO's anymore, so they're less likely to show up in a sample.

moregrist a day ago

It might be, but ... there are a lot of us who've seen this happen time and time again.

You have some startup, the founder is either young or doesn't want to do the CEO stuff. Things kind of eek along until the founder either steps aside or is removed by the board because a) it's time for a "grown-up" CEO; b) the CEO needs real sales experience; c) the founder overpromised and under-delivered; d) board/VC politics make it helpful to install a buddy as CEO; e) etc.

Then the CEO clock starts, typically they have 18 months to get lucky and hit their metrics. They do a lot of glad-handing. They hire "their team" of sales/marketing/etc people. They spend A LOT of money. And I mean A LOT. They talk about OKRs or SMRTs and KPIs. Out of nowhere a small army of project managers show up and try to tell you how to do your job and why you can't just talk to the <thing X> team directly but have to go through them for "efficiency" and "visibility."

In 3-6 months, senior engineering and R&D staff starts to leave. Whatever culture you had slips away. HR has "culture" meetings to "find the right company culture."

Sales/product can't sell and points the finger at R&D, maybe even for the right reasons. You OKR/KPI harder, but it doesn't matter because nothing addresses whatever the underlying problem is. Multiple senior people have pointed loudly to the problem and are ignored; they're often not managers so it's unclear if they were even heard.

At some point there are one or more rounds of layoffs; sometimes these are announced, sometimes it's just a gradual attrition.

Eventually the CEO clock runs out. They don't get lucky. Nothing they did helped, and some of it hurt. They collect their $1M severance, get to keep their stock, get 9-12 months of health insurance, and move on. In a year or two you hear about them joining a new company as CEO.

In the meantime, you've either moved on or have a new CEO with a new 18-month clock.

Grombobulous a day ago

Perhaps CEOs are like NFL quarterbacks. They get all the credit when things go right and all the blame when they go wrong. In reality, they only have a limited number of levers to pull. Only extraordinary ones can overcome a bad team or a more hostile external environment.

__MatrixMan__ 19 hours ago

If that were the case there would be more of them in jail.

bradleyjg a day ago

Perhaps. But does anyone at all outside the c suite fail up in the same way? Fail spectacularly and get a comparable or better opportunity?

Even if it’s only 30% of CEOs and 15% of other CxOs there’s still an anomaly there to be explained.

joquarky a day ago

Those that fall were insufficiently sociopathic.

pepitogarvan 17 hours ago

LLm spoted lol

meowface 17 hours ago

My post doesn't have any LLM tells, nor have I ever used one to write a social media comment.

That would actually be interesting if LLMs were to ever refer to LLM trust in the way I did. Kind of a scary thought.

cm11 a day ago

I think this is broadly true of leaders including lesser ones. It even seems true of roles like product manager.

The vast majority of projects seem to not meet their stated goals or KPIs or mission, be late, not follow remotely the planned path, etc. Whether blame falls on poor execution, poor planning, or overpromsing, those are precisely the things that chosen leaders are supposed to have been chosen to avoid—and what they would in theory fail downwards for. Unpredictable things do happen, but the regularity of these outcomes for projects (and products as a whole) means we're systematically choosing the wrong ones, there aren't enough capable ones (period), and/or that we shouldn't be org'd to need them in the first place. The last one is simply saying that if the environment is unpredictable enough that you can't plan well, then let's not spend time and money on planning. That in itself axes large chunks of the things product leaders do before work starts.

It makes iterating a more likely plan, but most teams and workstreams don't iterate too much. The iterating that sometimes is done is typically downstream of the plan, strategy, architecture that leadership leadershipped. They might do better without all the planning and overpromised timelines, which gut iterating. Iteration is only sort of a strategy anyhow (depends on what layer we're talking about when we say strategy). Iteration is what hedges a lack of vision.

landedgentry a day ago

Some would call this a valuable skill.

malfist a day ago

New devs learn quickly that when the TPM over promises it's the devs job to take the fall when delivery is late, or kill themselves so the TPM can take credit.

not_kurt_godel 20 hours ago

> The vast majority of projects seem to not meet their stated goals or KPIs or mission, be late, not follow remotely the planned path, etc

Citation needed

tristor 7 hours ago

> It even seems true of roles like product manager.

Yes, but there are valid reasons for this. Speaking as someone who is currently in Product, let me point out that a lot of larger efforts in large organizations are inherently risky. This is probably measurable, but generally nobody invests in doing so, rather than that we model it with approximations. When an executive decides on a strategy which has a large effort as a downstream outcome, there is some risk possible that it becomes impossible, or that it is possible but at 2x, 3x, 5x, 10x the cost/time which erodes its value. Success doesn't look like hitting an arbitrary timeline or budget, success looks like getting to an outcome that aligns with the objectives/goals of the strategy, in a timeline that doesn't torpedo the strategy, and in a way which results in an economic ROI.

I am generally considered pretty good in my current organization. I have been lauded often. I don't think any of the major initiatives I've worked on have been "on time", but in almost every case it was due to cross-organizational dependencies dragging things out, which is an inherent risk accounted for when doing anything large in a large organization. But every single one of those initiatives has resulted in a positive ROI in a manner timely enough to support the strategy.

From the perspective of the organization, that's a win. And a win is rewarded.

I imagine similar things can be seen at executive levels. Nobody is asking detailed execution questions about your strategy to determine if its a win or a loss, they're looking at the aggregate outcome. Did your strategy result in improved profitability or reduction of cost or increase in share price, or not? CEOs seem to fail upward even on those metrics, but other executive roles seem to be more accountable.

ChicagoDave a day ago

Yeah there’s a recruiting firm that literally hires ex-CEOs, puts them on the bench, then searches for their next “assignment”. They pay these people to golf until they place them.

https://www.heidrick.com/

jmalicki a day ago

It's common for VCs to do the same as "entrepreneur in residence"

apocalyptic0n3 a day ago

There's multiple of these for executives. We tried using one at my last company to find a Sales exec (I think they would have been c-level). I was part of the interviewing process and what we found out was that we absolutely needed the ideas and practices these candidates had and simultaneously couldn't afford them at even half their asking price. It was a real conundrum and the company more or less failed 18 months later after management decided "doing nothing" was the right decision.

jmalicki a day ago

I worked at one company hire a part-time CFO. Apparently part time execs are thing - late in their career and established and successfully to think about retiring, but don't want to get out of the game completely. Or to be e.g. a CFO for 3-4 startups at once. Not sure if that exists for sales, but I thought it was a neat idea.

roryirvine 16 hours ago

Usually referred to as "fractional" roles - often used for senior advisors and executive board level posts, and for CxO roles that aren't central to the business (eg. CFO for non-finance companies, CTO/CIO for non-tech companies).

I wouldn't expect to see it for sales so much, as it would mess with the incentive structure and you kind of want your salesfolk to be "all in". Same goes for CEO or COO - they might have a small portfolio of non-exec board memberships (or similar) on the side, but it's hard to do a good job if your primary focus is split between multiple distinct businesses.

apocalyptic0n3 4 hours ago

Yeah, Fractional C-levels are definitely a thing. I've served as a fractional CTO before. It can be really helpful for a small-to-mid size company trying to grow, but not nearly as effective as a full time exec doing the same tasks. Not having someone dedicating all of their time to understanding the company and the problems that need to be solved really limits how useful they can be.

arethuza 14 hours ago

From experience I can say that people at level (particularly in sales) are very good at selling themselves - following through and delivering on those promises can be a very different thing.

ChicagoDave a day ago

Side note: I interviewed at Heidrick two weeks after 9/11. Manager said they had several employees quit on the spot. They offered terrible compensation so I passed.

physicallyIllfr 19 hours ago

What did 9/11 have to do with it?

ChicagoDave 18 hours ago

Sorry. Their office was in the Sears (Willis) Tower.

dataflow a day ago

> One reason might be the share price has collapsed and he has no confidence in it coming back (pretty scandalous if he's the CEO!), or Meta has offered him inducements > what he's walking away from.

Or there's something else scandalous happening and he wants to halt a bad look ASAP? I don't get why he or Meta couldn't have waited a couple weeks otherwise.

lenerdenator a day ago

> One reason might be the share price has collapsed and he has no confidence in it coming back (pretty scandalous if he's the CEO!)

Is it?

Scandals require consequence. He's getting a new job at Meta. It'll take lawsuits to suss all of this out and those take years.

Worth noting: CJ wasn't just the CEO, he was also board member and president.

This is what happens when you don't have effective corporate governance.

gadders a day ago

Oh man, he'll probably just have to eke out a living on $300m or something to last him the rest of his life. It will be tough.

throwawayfifo a day ago

>he does and is willing to forfeit any benefit from it like share options

His stocks/options vested/exercised last Friday. He's not forfeiting anything.

tchalla a day ago

Where do you see that information?

2muchcoffeeman a day ago

MongoDB is a publicly traded company. You have to have inform people when C-level (other key personnel???) get shares, sell them.

vanuatu a day ago

the share price dropping was due to him leaving, not the cause of him leaving (but this is very bearish for mongo)

ojbyrne a day ago

Isn't it also a possibility that he gave notice and it wasn't announced to the world until his last day?

dyauspitr a day ago

No way. CEOs with significant experience are not easy to find so he’s going to do just fine.

k33n a day ago

Workers are so much more militant and punitive than executives. It's not other executives that will try and hurt his career because he made a decision and went with it. It will be the worker bees that will attempt to hurt him 5 years down the road -- without even knowing the full story.

debo_ a day ago

Yes, those poor executives.

k33n a day ago

The execs are fine. The barrel crabs certainly are getting active though. It's pure, unadulterated envy. Nothing more.

idiotsecant a day ago

its a small club, and you ain't in it friend. No matter how many boots you lick.

k33n a day ago

I don’t need to be in “the club”. Some people badly want that. Let them have it. Why would I have a problem with an executive changing jobs? Because he gets paid more money than me?

rjdjrir 17 hours ago

appreciate that you did not even bother to dispute that you kiss boots

k33n 7 hours ago

I appreciate that you noticed that I didn’t bother. Why would I? Are you someone I should care about?

zem 6 hours ago

so you do realise that people can have an opinion on executives without being envious of them

platinumrad a day ago

There are very practical reasons to not hire someone who abruptly dips after less than a year on the job that have nothing to do with being punitive.

danielmarkbruce a day ago

People get fired effective immediately.

jm4 a day ago

Or he told the board he’s resigning and they told him it’s immediate. It’s unlikely he resigned with zero notice so he could go the Meta the very next day.

bilekas a day ago

The third option could surely be he was fired ? Although I would imagine MongoDB would have organised someone already to take over.

plorkyeran a day ago

The previous CEO immediately returned as interim CEO, so they sort of did have someone ready.

bilekas a day ago

Interim is always a temp one though, and the fact it was the previous feels to me at least like them saying "Hey we need a favour" but I have no insight.

cute_boi a day ago

He don't need to be CEO with the money he already have.

saghm a day ago

> One reason might be the share price has collapsed and he has no confidence in it coming back (pretty scandalous if he's the CEO!)

From looking at the historical prices, it was down from $450 to $410 from a month ago, but still quite a bit from $235 six months ago, which is not anything close to what I'd consider "collapsed". Of course, he might have expected to continue going down, but that's going to be hard to measure in the short term given that announcements like this tend to affect the price directly in the short term (so far down to $338 today, close to double the loss of the entire previous month, although it seems far too soon to draw any conclusions).

Not that I think I'm saying anything that has any sort of bias, but it's probably reasonable in case anyone happens to read this and be suspicious: I did work at MongoDB for around five years (but haven't worked there for nearly as long), and from that stint I did have a sizable amount of shares, although as of last year I no longer hold any (for reasons completely unrelated to any personal opinions of the company; I had procrastinated way too much on making any sort of decision about how much to hold onto and for how long, so when my wife and I were buying a house, I decided it was time to just liquidate it and put it towards that instead).

minraws a day ago

> He's never going to be hired as CEO by anybody for the rest of his career.

I haven't had this experience I have found a lot of people who burnt the damn house down get hired in a company for a similar role in a few months especially CEOs and executives. Including large companies, I had someone I know in a c suite role who burnt a few other companies to join competitors now working in Tesla and a friend who burnt the bridges with supposedly half the SF who is still employed in a similar c-suite role in SF.

I really don't think people care unless you are a nobody sofware developer who tried to do the same perhaps, mostly because I can't prove it.

icepush a day ago

I think the most instructive example of this is Stephen Elop. He had ONE (1) successful business venture in the 90's and has done a horrible, laughably destructive job at everything he has ever touched since, and is still a CEO.

mcmcmc a day ago

I just don’t understand the drive of these people to keep seeking further power and wealth when they already are richer than most people could ever imagine. Just go enjoy your life.

idiotsecant a day ago

high functioning sociopaths are still sociopaths. The domination and power are the point, not just something they are doing to make some cash.

emerongi a day ago

I don’t think these people can sit around and enjoy nature. Nobody rewards you for enjoying nature. All their life they have learned to climb the social ladder and have become good at it, they keep getting rewarded and praised for it, so that’s what they do and keep doing.

I think they’re missing some internal loop. Only external rewards satisfy them and they maximise for that. Stopping is not an option, because then the rewards stop coming and they have no idea how to exist when that happens.

katookatoo a day ago

Also, instead of enjoying life they choose to report to Zuck, eww

amenghra a day ago

Reminds me the Bill Gates and the fisherman joke/story (which is based on an older/similar story): https://sampatpatnaik.blogspot.com/2008/10/bill-gates-fisher...

kevstev a day ago

He is 60 years old per wikipedia, this is likely his last rodeo. He has held board positions at Datadog, Athena Health, App Dynamics and other places in addition to his job at Mongo per LinkedIn. He was also at Mongo for 11 years.

It seems he is deeply connected, and probably approaching centimillionaire wealth.

Even if he is burning some bridges, its not going to affect his career at this point.

Edit: I looked at the current interim CEO's profile, not the outgoings, but its almost the same story- he is 55, been on other boards, has experience at director+ level since 1995 listed... this isn't going to hurt his career.

MisterMunchkin a day ago

If he makes Meta a shit ton of money then nobody will care and he’ll easily find more jobs.

catchnear4321 a day ago

Maybe this is a silly assumption, but, he reached the title, he’s got the ladder-climbing experience to understand his choice.

ExoticPearTree a day ago

> He's never going to be hired as CEO by anybody for the rest of his career.

You must be new to the corporate world or incredibly naive.

brabel a day ago

I have been in a CEO replacement at my previous job. The owners were not happy with how things were going and replaced him. It was a decision only two or three people on the board participated in, even most of the board had no idea. In public, however, the only information that came out was that the CEO decided that his mission had been accomplished and it was time to look for new opportunities. These people never publicly tell the truth, what you hear on the news is what they want you to hear. The truth is almost certainly something completely different.

dominotw a day ago

he got fired

Eddy_Viscosity2 a day ago

> He's never going to be hired as CEO by anybody for the rest of his career.

This is a great example of saying how things should work, which is almost the exact opposite of how they actually work.

ian-g a day ago

Do you think he needs to make any more money in his life, or can he retire tomorrow and live comfortably long past his death?

mandeepj a day ago

> One reason might be the share price has collapsed and he has no confidence in it coming back

Not sure how you made that assessment!

52 Week Range: 215.68 - 473.10

Yesterday, it closed at 410.44. Clearly, very far away from collapse. In fact, it made a solid comeback (almost doubled from lows).

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/MDB/

gchamonlive a day ago

Which probably means it's time for the adventurous to try and short MongoDB

beembeem a day ago

This is data point #2 in his executive career, it's now a trend.

https://www.crn.com/news/channel-news/2024/servicenow-presid...

bix6 a day ago

Even CEOs gotta job hop to beat that 23% inflation!! (Y/y airline prices).

beembeem a day ago

You missed the point. The reason behind the job hops is worth looking at closely. In retrospect, his time at MDB appears to launder a reputation that was shattered. Ending up at meta, therefore, seems to suit him well.

umeshunni a day ago

data point #3 if you include his stint at Symantec 10+ years ago.

beembeem a day ago

Wow, TIL servicenow was his second run-in with the US government. I believe this is what you were referring to:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/united-states-intervenes-...

xnx a day ago

TIL MongoDB is a publicly traded company.

I can't imagine the future is bright for MongoDB as AI makes it much less painful to move off of legacy and/or overpriced software.

Hasz a day ago

Oracle is still making a very, very healthy amount of money on legacy db products. Momentum is a very powerful thing.

jjice a day ago

We're early on in the LLM era, so I have hope that it can crush Oracle's business model. That said, your database is probably the hardest part of your application to migrate off of...

esseph a day ago

> We're early on in the LLM era, so I have hope that it can crush Oracle's business model.

They're a hypercloud provider now. It may be awhile.

senderista a day ago

Oracle seems to be doing their best to expedite their own crushing. I wish them success.

esseph a day ago

> Oracle seems to be doing their best to expedite their own crushing.

Ehhhhhh maybe https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/ORCL

As much as I'd like to believe this, they have their ways of making money.

lenerdenator a day ago

I was thinking maybe investigations and prison time should crush Oracle's business model.

They bought Cerner early in the decade and have whittled it down to absolutely nothing. This is a problem when the software that Cerner sold was EMRs and I have people who used to work there telling me that the perioperative and anesthesia suites now have one person working on them, and no one's fixing issues.

SoftTalker a day ago

> your database is probably the hardest part of your application to migrate off of

Oracle has understood this for a long time. RDMBS have seen many generations of application tech stacks rise and fall. Other than C and unix they have outlasted almost everything.

vanuatu a day ago

don't look at the oracle stock price over the last year though

bel8 a day ago

$322 to $130. ouch

Hasz a day ago

This is mostly an artifact of their bonkers hyperscaler build up. The growth in their RDBMS has got to be 0 or negative, but existing customers are locked in tight imo.

dgellow a day ago

Don’t look at oracle’s debts

fendy3002 19 hours ago

IMO because usually the ones that use Oracle are usually slow at changing, usually risk-averse, CYA culture and big bureaucracy.

glimshe a day ago

At this point I'd rather use a Claude-written database system than use MongoDB at any price.

otabdeveloper4 a day ago

MongoDB is the only open-source database that supports multi-master high-availability out of the box.

senderista a day ago

Uh, CockroachDB?

bionsystem a day ago

They changed licensing.

rhines a day ago

Isn't this the default in Cassandra?

stevefan1999 a day ago

Citus on Postgres used to have similar feature; Dead after Microsoft acquisition

Altern4tiveAcc a day ago

MongoDB has been proprietary since 2018.

glimshe a day ago

MongoDB can't deliver high availability.

zvr 6 hours ago

Ehmm... MongoDB is not open source.

bradleyjg a day ago

MongoDB is webscale.

joshstrange a day ago

> AI makes it much less painful to move off of legacy and/or overpriced software.

Agreed. While DynamoDB != MongoDB, they are similar. I built a product on DynamoDB (Single-table-design) and while it was cool to find a way to make relational data work in DynamoDB, it was always a chore. New feature development was a huge PITA as was changing schema in any way. Sure, I might have been "holding it wrong" but after a weekend with Claude I migrated everything to Postgres and have been incredibly happy with that change something like 4-6 months later.

richwater a day ago

DynamoDB is really a fantastic product for the 99% percentile of workloads that need a particular kind of super low latency read operation at large scale.

The simplicity of using it and the lack of operations is really why most people tend to reach for it over a relational option, although over the years the burden of managing an RDMS has consistently gone down.

joshstrange a day ago

If your access patterns are fixed and not going to change, if your schema is pretty much solidified, then yes, I don't doubt that at all. But few things I've worked on have had such stable access patterns or schemas that they would benefit.

I enjoyed solving the challenges around using DynamoDB way more than I enjoyed using it on an ongoing basis.

maerF0x0 a day ago

DocumentDB more or less is MongoDB though

Thaxll a day ago

DynamoDB is very expensive.

saghm a day ago

I worked there from around a year before the IPO until around three and a half years after. The IPO price was around $24 if I remember correctly, but it's been floating in the $300-450 range for a while now. I have no clue what the future holds for it, but the IPO clearly did what it was intended to do.

trgn a day ago

i think infra software will be just fine. ai isnt going to implement a saas-database. and why would anybody migrate of mongodb, just to put their business data elsewhere?

it's end user software that's absolutely getting crushed.

nemo44x a day ago

Mongo’s biggest sell was it increases developer productivity so backlogs were burned down faster and managers all benefited.

AI greatly removes that differentiator. AI doesn’t care if it needs schemas or if there’s an idiomatic driver for Python or Node. Even schema changes aren’t an issue and most databases support complex data anyways.

dzonga a day ago

the more integrations are made to enable 'a.i' the more use cases for document databases.

toasty228 a day ago

A few days ago I learned Dana White (UFC's CEO) is on meta's board of directors, nothing will surprise me now.

nailer a day ago

Zuck is front row at a lot of fights and sometimes holds towels etc for fighters during walkons. Meta Threads is the official social media sponsor.

tudelo a day ago

Dana White turned a failing company into billions of dollars. Really, I think you are underestimating his ability.

dgellow a day ago

I’m pretty sure it’s more about his close connection to Trump

nailer a day ago

That was part of it, back in the early 2000s when people considered MMA "human cockfighting" (but bizarrely, boxing was OK) Trump let the events go on at his venues, however Dana is a pretty formidable businessman regardless of the connection to Trump.

Traster a day ago

No one has actually said that Dana White is a bad business man. It's just very difficult to believe that's the reason he was appointed to the board of a social media company on the same day that Donald Trump was inaugurated. If he was so consequential why wasn't he named to the board on Jan 7th 2021? I think we know why.

nailer a day ago

There's been a rightward shift in tech and culture (eg, children identify much less as transger and bisexual than a few years ago), it's likely Facebook is aligning with that.

0xy 18 hours ago

Zuck spends billions on funding for left aligned causes while spending basically nothing on the reverse. He's a chameleon that merely takes the appearance of a centrist when need be. The money doesn't lie though.

binlog a day ago

And Zuck’s sudden interest in MMA/boxing/Jiu Jitsu as part of his “alpha male” rebranding.

samuria a day ago

Huh, taking care of your body, being interested in a sport, and not being a robot is now labelled as an alpha male?

solid_fuel 18 hours ago

>> And Zuck’s sudden interest in MMA/boxing/Jiu Jitsu as part of his “alpha male” rebranding.

> Huh, taking care of your body, being interested in a sport, and not being a robot is now labelled as an alpha male?

You're doing a lot of projecting here.

toasty228 a day ago

I'm not sure that this was the deciding factor

lobf a day ago

There’s some weirdness with the UFC’s struggle at the time.

The Fertitta brothers are who actually bought it. Before owning the UFC, Lorenzo Fertitta was on (maybe the head?) of the Nevada State Athletic Commission- the very body who were refusing to sanction UFC events at the time, and the most important governing body in the combat sports world.

Obviously the UFC was hurting bad at that time since they couldn’t be sanctioned, were getting booted from arenas they booked, and were getting dropped by Pay Per View carriers. This decimated their value and the Fertittas scooped up the company for a song.

All of a sudden, now that they owned it, the sanctioning bodies agreed on a set of unified MMA rules, the UFC was re-sanctioned, and they started selling PPVs again.

It was actually quite a success from the very beginning. Their troubles were likely imposed on them by their prospective buyers in order to get the sale done, and all they and Dana White did really were take their foot off the company’s neck.

dam_jackalopes a day ago

Agree with most of this but they do deserve credit for the lift off that the UFC saw after the Ultimate Fighter. That was a legit cultural phenomenon for certain demos at the time. Without that, things could have have gone very, very differently.

jst1fthsdys a day ago

It is a scummy company run by scumbags, of course he would be.

TheqO 16 hours ago

Trump and Dana are close, and when Trump got re-elected, Dana was suddenly added to the Meta board as I think he was seen as a way to influence the Trump administration.

Same as how Clegg was brought in when the EU were on meta's case.

Dylan16807 a day ago

Isn't MongoDB relatively stable? I can't think of why it would need any particular CEO, and an executive moving to a company that burns money for fun doesn't say much about their previous job. So why the huge stock drop?

Pxtl a day ago

Probably just because it reminded everybody that MongoDB exists as a corporate entity and everybody is re-evaluating investment in "Open Core" products where the paid value-add is consultancy because learning to us the product is so difficult, since LLMs for all their faults are good at "how do I use this hard-to-learn tool?"

"Hey the MongoDB guy left, is MongoDB okay?.... wait, no, of course it isn't. It's in that space that is completely screwed."

smt88 a day ago

Stock prices have nothing to do with business performance anymore

empath75 a day ago

Also claude can probably knock out a mongodb clone in a couple of days.

tombert a day ago

It doesn't even need a couple days. I got Opus 5.5 to do it in like three or four hours, just out of curiosity.

saghm a day ago

Git can clone mongodb in far less than that. I think you might be misunderstanding where the revenue comes from.

trgn a day ago

crazy we're cheering on theft.

testuser1984 a day ago

P/E ratio 472.47

sajithdilshan a day ago

I had to google to see if this is correct. Completely absurd. At that rate MongoDB better pull out a cure for cancer out of their DB

shoo a day ago

MongoDB's net profit margin has been improving significantly over the last 5 years, increasing from -35% to +2%. This makes the P/E ratio not a very reliable lens to value the stock, vs using P/E ratios to compare mature companies that have relatively stable net profit margins.

To crudely estimate a fundamental valuation for MongoDB as a discounted sequence of future earnings, we'd need some understanding of the main factors that are driving this change in the net profit margin (over the next 5 years do we expect those factors to persist? to decay? to accelerate?), some modelling assumptions & forecasts for how they'll evolve over the next decade or two, and a discount factor.

Out of curiosity, I bashed together a naive NPV valuation, in complete ignorance of MongoDB's underlying business.

Completely unjustified modelling assumptions: suppose MongoDB can grow revenue at +20% / year for 5 years, then +5% / year for the next 5, then hitting a steady state +2.5% / year revenue growth; MongoDB grows net profit margin by +5% every year until hitting a 25% net profit margin, where it tops out; discount factor of 9.5% (= 5% risk free rate + 4.5% equity risk premium); no change in number of shares outstanding (perhaps optimistic, given they issued a bunch of stock within the last 5 years). Projecting this out 20 years & then using a 20x P/E valuation multiple at year 20 for the terminal value gives us an NPV estimate of the value at about $290 / share.

So if you believe MongoDB's business will do about that well, with your fundamental valuation investor hat on you could consider buying some stock if it were offered at, say, half the current market price or less -- assuming there isn't anything more attractive to invest in.

If you believe MongoDB's revenue growth & improvement in net profit margin will be much stronger over the next decade, maybe you'd be comfortable buying closer to the current market price.

(I don't hold any MongoDB stock & find it hard to stomach investing in growth companies vs companies that are more mature & easier to understand, but I appreciate that to value growth stocks you're not going to have much luck using P/B or P/E ratios)

nitwit005 a day ago

Might have interpreted it as captain heading for lifeboat.

vira28 a day ago

For folks who don’t know, CJ was the president of product and technology at Cloudflare for 6 months and CJ left them and joined MongoDB.

jankyxenon a day ago

Cloudflare didn’t join MongoDB, did they?

vira28 a day ago

My bad on the phrasing. CJ joined MongoDB. The modern gender pronouns are confusing.

sophacles a day ago

People have been using "they" as a gender neutral singular pronoun for 600 years. I doubt you're old enough to find this confusing.

joduplessis a day ago

Ah, I miss the days of NoSQL vs. SQL debates.

ramijames a day ago

I recently took my app off of Mongo Atlas because I was tired of dealing with charges that caught me off guard. I was tired of feeling like I was getting nickel and dimed over every little thing.

I ended up migrating everything to DigitalOcean's managed database for 1/3 the price. Less headache, better performance, and less panic and anger.

I'll never, ever use Mongo Atlas again.

abhirajabhi312 a day ago

So turns out nosql is no place for "structured" role like ceo.

bko a day ago

CEO leaves, stock market value drops ~$6.5B

One interpretation is that senior leadership (e.g. CEO) matters a lot. But it flies against the idea that CEOs are overpaid. From a quick search, it looks like his total stock comp was ~$52m which was a bargain considering his departure cost the company billions. Perhaps he would not have left if he had a higher pay, more in line with the value the market ascribes to him.

However I imagine those that are upset about CEO pay will find this unconvincing. Is there any other way to interpret this?

redorb a day ago

ole Zuck just buying what he wants - for any price, cause that is what the richest in the world can do? Also using the market cap / paper valuation isn't aligned with 'actual value' imo.

lotsofpulp a day ago

How much closer can you get to “actual value” than a long standing publicly trades business with deep liquidity?

AnthOlei a day ago

How much of the drop do you think is due to the bearish nature of ceo departure? One would have to assume that if the company was going to go gangbusters the ceo would stay.

In short: is it this particular CEO who is that valuable? Should I pay 100m to some Joe off the street since I know they will stay put?

bko a day ago

Zuck probably outbid him. He walked away from $30m unvested. If they paid him more, he likely would have stayed and the stock wouldn't drop $6b

CEOs leave all the time. Average tenure has dropped over the years suggesting a fierce competition for senior talent

AnthOlei a day ago

30m unvested at what price? If you think it’s going to 2x, then it’s worth 60m. Maybe zuck paid an unrealistic multiple - 20x, but out side of that still a bearish signal

rozap a day ago

Just because the market reacts to a piece of information to the tune of 6B, doesn't mean the guy is providing 6b of value. It's just a piece of information and the market reacts to what it may or may not mean. Any other goober with an MBA in that role who quits with no notice may induce the same market reaction, even if they were a shit ceo.

bko a day ago

If you think his departure won't impact the company, it looks like you're smarter than other investors and you get to buy MongoDB at a 25% discount. Also there's a job opening at the top spot, although you may be better suited as an investor with this kind of insight.

NoDodgeQuestion a day ago

departure could also mean, private information about MongoDB problems that is not public, so I would not invest in MongoDB

AnthOlei a day ago

Yeah this op keeps skipping this point… like this is everyone’s argument boiled down and he just keeps saying well market says he’s valuable. No, market says his departure is indicative of real price being XXm lower than previous, it could have little to do with his value directly

gretch a day ago

You made the assumption that it was fairly valued before and the loss was a "true" loss.

But possible it could have been over-valued before, unbeknownst to low-information external investors. After all, right now it as a PE of 450+. (Google PE is 17, Meta PE is 27, Tesla PE is 330)

The stock dropping on CEO departure had nothing to do with his personal performance, and everything to do with the information that he revealed on the way out. Why would the CEO leave a rising and successful company on the verge of innovation?

And thus tying it back to pay - people should be paid based on their output and their personal performance, not based on simply serving as a signal which any warm body can do. That said, I don't think truly amazing CEOs are overpaid, e.g. steve jobs of old.

ForHackernews a day ago

> Is there any other way to interpret this?

Sure: Destructive actions have a lower bar than constructive ones.

My company doesn't pay me millions, but I were motivated to do so, I could probably cost my company millions. Similar principle here: regardless of whether the CEO is any good, simply by virtue of their position they can tank the stock by making wild moves that undermine confidence.

Imagine a generic human blob CEO with minimal VORP[0], you could swap him out with anyone else in the organisation and get the same results. But if he gets on twitter and announces, "This company is trash and I'm leaving this trash fire," he's going to cost them millions.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_over_replacement_player

Dylan16807 a day ago

> However I imagine those that are upset about CEO pay will find this unconvincing. Is there any other way to interpret this?

I would argue that at most he's a signal about company value that people reacted to. Maybe the company lost 6 billion dollars in underlying value, but it wasn't from the CEO change itself.

john_strinlai a day ago

>it looks like his total stock comp was ~$52m which was a bargain considering his departure cost the company billions.

this same things can happen with any employee at any company and does not bolster your argument.

a $10/hr worker flipping burgers can take actions that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. burger king foot lettuce guy probably cost the company millions.

i could cause millions of dollars in damage this afternoon (i am not paid millions).

bko a day ago

I don't think the CEO sabotaged anything or created legal liability causing the $6b drop. I think you're stretching here.

john_strinlai a day ago

the point is that the amount of money you make is not really tied to the amount of many you can cause the company to lose (on purpose, by accident, by departure, etc.).

or, in other words, looking at the 6B loss and working backwards to say that the CEO was underpaid at 52MM is nonsensical

bko a day ago

I think it's a pretty clear counterfactual. Someone works there company is worth X. If he doesn't work there, what would the company be worth? Note that the role itself doesn't go away, it will get replaced, but the difference in market value is his worth to the company compared to a median CEO.

It sounds like you just have something icky against someone being worth billions to a business. It's not a moral worth, it's just a market value as perceived by the market. In other words, a rational investor would gladly pay the CEO $1b for him not to leave and save $6b in market cap. So by definition he must be worth at least that much.

john_strinlai a day ago

>It sounds like you just have something icky against someone being worth billions to a business.

there's many explanations as to why the stock dropped the amount it did. one of the least likely was that desai's leadership is worth billions of dollars. it has nothing to do with "icky".

a rational investor would not want desai to receive a ~20x raise to stay, either. i have no idea why you think they would.

bko a day ago

This was sudden very large drop, coincided exactly with announcement CEO would be leaving.

MongoDB reaffirmed both Q3 and full-year FY2027 guidance this morning.

There was no revenue warning, earnings revision, or deterioration disclosed alongside Desai’s departure.

There was no major analyst downgrade today driving the move. In fact, Citizens maintained its Buy rating and $519 target.

There's literally no other reason I can reasonably think of for the large stock drop apart from his departure. So I think you're stretching here. You just can't admit what's obvious because you likely think it's morally icky to suggest someone can be worth that much.

Also you have to consider that Zuck is probably paying him 9 figures to leave. So another person validating that he really is worth that much

f33d5173 a day ago

His departure causing a drop does not mean he was worth that drop. Investors think his departure signals internal issues and are trading based off that.

john_strinlai a day ago

>You just can't admit what's obvious because you likely think it's morally icky to suggest someone can be worth that much.

you keep saying this, but you have literally no idea who i am or what my morals are. perhaps you should not speak so confidently about things you know nothing about.

i dont find anything "icky", i just disagree with you.

>Also you have to consider that Zuck is probably paying him 9 figures to leave. So another person validating that he really is worth that much

you can't make up a random number then use that made up number as "validation" for your point.

AnthOlei a day ago

One has to imagine that the op is a ceo himself. They are just not engaging with any of these arguments in good faith - strawmanning and then attacking personally

christkv a day ago

Dude if you bought this morning on the news you would have made well over 10% back today. This smells more of a massive algorithmic sell off

if "CEO Resignes" SELL SELL SELL

bigwheels a day ago

Somehow missed this until now. Interesting read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burger_King_foot_lettuce

ai-x a day ago

Leaving a company != Taking actions.

If a Burger Flipper leaves the company, it costs them exactly the amount of Burgers they fell short of making (to meet the demand) till they find the replacement burger flipper and they are exactly paid that much.

Anyone can burn/bomb a company and cause millions in damages. Doesn't mean they are worth that much

john_strinlai a day ago

>Anyone can burn/bomb a company and cause millions in damages. Doesn't mean they are worth that much

yes, that's my point.

and it absolutely extends to unexpectedly leaving. there have been plenty of times in my career that simply leaving without notice would have cost my company many times my salary.

mongodb ceo is not worth 6 billion dollars.

svpk a day ago

Another reading is this: CEOs don't quit without notice [1], it's bad form and bad for both the company and for the reputation of the person leaving. Regardless of the value he as an individual was providing it speaks to substantial disfunction in the overall leadership of the company and a major lack of confidence from the person who presumably had the best idea of how the company was doing on the whole. The market suddenly learning those things resulted in a substantial market correction. It doesn't really matter whether he was a particularly good or bad CEO; the situation would indicate something is majorly wrong in either case.

1: Obviously exceptions will exist for unexpected major life events, etc.

alboy a day ago

>Is there any other way to interpret this?

One would be "the market processing the new information that MongoDB's legal department doesn't know how to draft contracts".

platinumrad a day ago

> However I imagine those that are upset about CEO pay will find this unconvincing. Is there any other way to interpret this?

Judging by your recent comments, you seem to have an axe to grind with people who are "upset about CEO pay" and I don't think it's possible to convince you to look any things from any other angle.

A CEO abruptly resigning is read by the market as a signal. Unless you think this person is ~$6.5B more valuable than any potential replacement, the full quantity of the loss cannot be ascribed to the value he provides as an employee.

zelias a day ago

Trading algorithms at big shops read headline "CEO of company leaves for greener AI pastures"

Make adjustments based on ML

Actual analysis of this person's value to company not weighted as highly

kenferry a day ago

Er, I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at, but the stop market drop was not because of his value-add to the company, it was because of the signal it sends by the CEO quitting.

So… I guess you could make an argument that that merits higher pay, but it'd be saying it's due to his blackmail power.

spicybright a day ago

People still use MongoDB?

giancarlostoro a day ago

MongoDB is not a bad database, it is not my first immediate choice for everything, but it is very easy to get into, super easy to prototype with. My biggest pet peeve is how it handled indexes, shoves it all into memory. That and how people use it sometimes bewilders me.

Two fun facts: ObjectID's are like Discord snowflakes: you can get a timestamp of when they were generated, you can also generate them client side, so you can filter items in a collection by when they were created.

The other one, that I always enjoyed is, you can take an existing ObjectId, and reinsert it into another document, you dont have to nest all your data, you can go kinda sorta relational about it.

Used it at a previous job, the first project could have just used a SQL db but because the person who made the intial one tried to do NoSQL using something in the cloud, they migrated it to MongoDB to keep it simple and consistent. The second project, well, we really discovered all the limits if you aren't Google with unlimited server memory available, like indexing as I mentioned. MongoDB pipelines are probably my favorite feature on the other hand.

lukaszkorecki a day ago

> you can go kinda sorta relational about it.

and reinvent half of a SQL engine inside your backend logic, badly.

(source: for the 3rd time, I'm working on a system that uses Mongo extensively, the goal is to move to Postgres as soon as that's viable)

VirusNewbie a day ago

Postgres does not scale. I have extensive experience in some of the largest databases ever built, postgres doesn't even come close.

ewild a day ago

there are mountains of evidence that postgres does indeed scale if thoughfully designed.

Imustaskforhelp a day ago

Curious to know what does actually scale according to your opinion (if not postgres) and what is the scale that we are talking about when mentioning some of the largest databases ever built (I hope you can talk more about it!)

There seems to be many many options at attempting/trying to scale postgresql, what are your opinions of them?

Also It is my sort of opinion that you really have a good problem if postgresql isn't working you because of the problem of scale and that, evaluation of other problems become much easier but in general, its easier to start with postgresql.

(Personally, I use sqlite + golang static binaries on a 500mb/1gb ram server, so I can't comment too much on the scale part as I am focused much more on simplicity yet I admire how aside from sqlite (which is also more scalable than people think!) postgresql is almost always good enough in my opinion though I can be wrong and I usually am)

atherton94027 a day ago

People do hate on it but MySQL is what I would reach for when needing tons of scale. Its correctness issues about type conversions are super well documented at this point and Innodb is really good at ingesting tons of data. There's also a lot of talent you can hire if you need exotic setup.

SamInTheShell a day ago

Migrate to yugabyte? It's a multi-raft fork of postgres.

giancarlostoro a day ago

Please elaborate more instead of just "trust me" it would be nice to understand where this comes from. I'm sure back some years people would have said the same about MySQL, yet YouTube used the heck out of MySQL, they made an entire Go based runtime on top of it to scale MySQL.

You can scale nearly anything if you know what you're doing.

cess11 a day ago

It would be nice if you could substantiate this a bit.

Like, what kind of measurement is "largest"? Most bytes on disk?

Thaxll a day ago

It's not that it does not scale but it does not scale out of the box.

hnfong 11 hours ago

It's hilarious that this discussion thread is literally repeating the meme joke in 2010: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2F-DItXtZs

giancarlostoro a day ago

Yeah, I wouldnt recommend doing MongoDB for EVERYTHING, but when you're using it for very specific things, you dont have to throw away everything you're already familiar with is all I was saying.

Salgat a day ago

MongoDB's biggest weakness was its default settings, which made it insecure and very vulnerable to data consistency failures. An absolute nightmare for PR. It's not perfect, but it's comparable to other NoSQL databases now.

zdragnar a day ago

Their biggest weakness was that their marketing promised way, way more than they could deliver.

Aphyr's original examination [0] took them to task so much so that I always think of it as the start of the "end", at least of the "web scale" obsession.

[0] https://aphyr.com/posts/284-jepsen-mongodb

vlyan a day ago

poor souls stuck maintaining brownfield webshit developed during the height of mongo's marketing campaign 10 years ago.

d2kx a day ago

MongoDB has been a good database for years.

stuckinaloop a day ago

IIRC (from my time there) Stripe still uses MongoDB for it's main datastore.

https://stripe.dev/blog/how-stripes-document-databases-suppo...

christkv a day ago

MongoDB is a great db for agentic workloads to be honest. Thats probably why they are still seeing growth. They also have some very good embedding models. They should really make those available over their own API though.

They probably should look into JEV style models as well might make sense for automatic classification of data.

stevefan1999 a day ago

MongoDB is a natural choice if you are working with denormalized deeply hierarchical data structure like JSON. It is also natural to JavaScript devs since the shell itself is JavaScript. This makes it super effective on modern web framework although I recently switched to Drizzle

returnInfinity a day ago

I think its Zuck's new hiring strat,

He hired cred CEO to be whatsapp CEO.

Scale CEO to be AI leader

Now Mongo ceo to lead the AI enterprise sales.

conmod278 a day ago

Demis Hassabis decided not to sell DeepMind to Facebook after testing Mark Zuckerberg at dinner and realizing Zuckerberg sounded "Equally Excited" about every tech trend brought up.

calderwoodra a day ago

Anecdotally, I've seen a surprising number MongoDB employees applying to our job listings for the last 6-9 months (enough to feel like a trend).

fer a day ago

MongoDB is aggressively hiring in Dublin, though.

Insanity a day ago

Interesting choice, his prior experience doesn't seem AI related yet he's going to lead an AI strategy at Meta?

bombcar a day ago

At least it’ll be Webscale.

dagmx a day ago

Meta’s chief AI officer is a 29-30 year old who was acquihired as part of his data labelling company. He’s not a model developer.

Meta hires in strange ways. I’m convinced it’s more about your sales pitch going in.

ChickeNES a day ago

> I’m convinced it’s more about your sales pitch going in.

Given this guy's job will be selling Muse to corporations, sounds like the best way to hire for that position.

boshalfoshal a day ago

And I'm pretty sure this "29-30 year old who was merely acquihired" probably knows more than these veteran/boomer execs about how to execute a consumer AI product strategy.

"Chief AI officer" does not mean he leads AI research efforts, its just a title. He just takes care of hiring and product direction, both of which I'd say hes done well in. They obviously have actual researchers working on models.

I'd go as far as to say Alexandr Wang can do this better than most other leaders. Young people should be in charge of products, they generally have a better sense of what resonates with consumers, and Meta is a consumer company at the end of the day.

seunosewa 13 hours ago

Data is at the heart of AI training. Good data makes good models. Their chief AI officer understood this, which is why Facebook went crazy about collecting data. And it worked. Muse Spark is really good for its price.

Pxtl a day ago

MongoDB is the textbook success of "Zero friction and slick marketing beats good engineering discipline" that is the AI froth right now.

From a technical standpoint? Very different. From a marketing standpoint when selling to software-development clients? Same space.

saalweachter a day ago

Yeah, glancing at headlines this is basically "MongoDB is a company with a lot of experience selling to enterprise clients (and by extension the CEO knows how to run such a company), Meta wants to sell enterprise clients their AI offerings".

Which is like, not as weird as most AI company headlines, to be honest?

Pxtl a day ago

Not just that, they're also kinda similar value proposition, in that it's "holy crap look how fast you can develop code if you just ignore all of the longer-term risks you're creating".

Both AI and Mongo can be used for good and quality code but that's not how they get sales.

burger_moon a day ago

I've run out of fingers for the amount of people in my network that are now leading/head of AI xyz at their employers yet have little to no understanding of AI beyond asking ChatGPT simple questions.

stasomatic a day ago

"Effective immediately" is harsh even though perfectly legal. Does this mean nobody knew and it was a "Surprise!!!"? Extremely callous if that's the case, there is got to be more to the story.

Is a CEO really worth 20% of market cap? Nuts.

leftnode a day ago

It looks like that phrase was removed from the article, but that is standard for C-level jobs. When you resign, you're shown the door immediately. The same thing happened with Marissa Mayer when she left Google during a phone call. Call was ended and her accesses terminated. Can't risk any additional trade secrets leaving.

Macha a day ago

> It looks like that phrase was removed from the article, but that is standard for C-level jobs.

Isn't the standard they get a made up advisor role for some months? Though usually that involves the ex-C-level to understand the implicit expectation of not starting immediately at the next place.

tschellenbach a day ago

MongoDB does seem to be in a rough spot. Their pitch is an easier to get started with database, which longer term gives you problems and higher costs. And since we all have AI agents, why would you select that for any use case?

sv123 a day ago

Not to mention it is a painful database to work with... Doc DBs were simple 15+ years ago, but turns out most data is relational and it's just simpler to use postgres.

Analemma_ a day ago

MongoDB and its hype burned many, many people back in the day. It's hard to overstate how much it used to suck ass. At one point MongoDB client libraries would report that writes succeeded even if your box had no internet connection, that's how bad it was.

The Mongo fans claim "no really, it's good now", but I was one of the people burned so badly that I'll never touch it with a ten-foot pole again for as long as I live. I assume this toxic reputation is a big part of the problem.

scrubs a day ago

Folks, we also need to address why meta hired the guy if failing up hypothesis is to gain ground. Meta is either part of the problem, stupid, or wants his connections all arguably bad.

asdffdasasdf 14 hours ago

working class people here thinking c level positions are billionaire corporations follow the same rules at small business (which startups are even lower)

exec on corporations is more about trust, family, and connections than anything else. previous work is mostly irrelevant.

nchmy a day ago

Finally web scale

cmiles8 a day ago

People still use MongoDB?

ok123456 a day ago

MongoDB is dying. Netcraft confirms it.

Glemmlko a day ago

Funny, two companies i think really suck exchange their CEO.

MongoDB a product which had hard issues with keeping data, never solved a real problem.

And then Meta...

Garbage in garbage out?

modeless a day ago

Meta stock down 4% on the news...

boshalfoshal a day ago

Right, and lets ignore the fact that Meta rocketed up 50% in a month, and the rest of the market is also down ~1% because of crude going up.

-4% means nothing in context.

SpicyLemonZest a day ago

It doesn't mean Meta is burning down, but it does mean the market is not convinced the Meta Enterprise Platform is going to be some exciting new business direction.

fred_is_fred a day ago

As a non-joke question - I am surprised a CEO can do this. Wouldn't there be contract terms about notice period, orderly transition etc?

next_xibalba a day ago

Likely anything that goes beyond missing out on compensation (ex: unvested RSUs) or even clawing back some comp would violate labor laws. CEOs are still employees, and legislation regulating employer-employee relations trumps all contracts.

jtwaleson a day ago

There are many many instances where the CEO is not an employee, but they operate via their own legal entity. To be honest I don't know how this works at larger companies.

Onavo a day ago

A contractor CEO? I know it is extremely common for directors to be contractors for tax reasons.

kiicia a day ago

it simply works, that's how you optimise tax on million+ sums, do you think ceo-s pay taxes on par with regular workers?

SoftTalker a day ago

Yes, CEOs pay taxes on income. The only way around that is to structure the compensation so it's not income, and the IRS probably has tried to prevent that as much as possible. I'm not a tax or HR expert but I'd think unrealized gains on stock compensation might not be. Deferred compensation might not be, until it's actually paid.

SkyPuncher a day ago

I have never heard of this. Do you mind sharing some examples?

next_xibalba a day ago

I'd never heard of this. It turns out it is very rare for publicly traded companies [1]. In these cases, I would guess it comes down to contract terms. But again, it's not as though the law would compel an individual to continue working at a company. It would just come down to what the contracts say, and, potentially, how the courts interpret those contracts in the event of a lawsuit.

[1] Examples I found: Worksport Ltd., Exicure, Inc., Rainmaker Worldwide Inc., and Acorn Energy, Inc.

rcxdude a day ago

A lot of these labor laws get less protective for higher-ranked people in a company, whether it be due to thresholds based on compensation or explicit carve-outs for executives/board members. It varies a lot from place to place.

neom a day ago

In the US, there is only one labor law that is different for execs and high paid employees and that is overtime rules. Fiduciary duty does govern how a director or officer behaves while in the role, loyalty, no self-dealing, no stealing corporate opportunities etc. It doesn't oblige them to stay or dictate how they must leave.

In US and English law, "specific performance", so a court ordering you to do what you promised, isn't available for personal service contracts. In the US that's reinforced by the 13th Amendment's ban on involuntary servitude. So even if a CEO signed a contract promising 6 months notice and a smooth handover, the company can't make them do it, they can only enforce any financial penalties that are contracted.

roryirvine a day ago

Yeah, notice periods are typical at that level even in the USA where they're not often used for the rank and file. A star candidate may have had sufficient leverage to negotiate them away, but I don't expect that to have been the case here.

Sometimes a new employer will offer compensation for any loss of stock options and/or to indemnify against any claim for breach of contract or similar.

But it could also be that Mongo have simply agreed to release him - he was only there for 10 months, and might not have turned out to be a great fit. Their share price has been more or less level in that time whilst competitors have been rising so it's not as if he had notable immediate success in boosting their appeal to enterprise customers.

ghaff a day ago

Anytime someone is at a company for less than a year and "departs," rightly or wrongly I assume there was some lack of meeting of the minds. I've known professional friends in that position but never asked about details.

roryirvine a day ago

The only thing that might give me pause is that there's no conciliatory language coming from Mongodb to indicate that it was a negotiated exit, not even a bland "by mutual agreement".

In fact, they seem to have gone out of their way to minimise any mention of him which, to me, suggests that it might have been worded that way based on legal advice rather than for PR reasons.

jedberg a day ago

We don't have to guess, his offer letter is public record:

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1441816/000162828025...

As far as I can tell, there is no notice period.

fred_is_fred a day ago

I've always wanted model sharding.