I remember some of our early Chromebooks had Canadian keyboards, and students and teachers revolted.
Key symbols we lost to time, pt. 2: The Mac side (unsung.aresluna.org)
mig39 18 minutes ago
DroneBetter 11 hours ago
is a particularly humorous instance of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAS_syndrome
applfanboysbgon 11 hours ago
amelius 11 hours ago
Cockbrand 11 hours ago
Not sure if this was ever supported system-wide in any way, though.
kps 9 hours ago
spijdar 11 hours ago
(Yes, they could have just replaced the "regular" function keys with copy/paste keys, but I feel like that would have gone over about as well as the various times they've, uh, tried to replace the function keys)
amelius 11 hours ago
eviks 6 hours ago
roldie 10 hours ago
dchest 9 hours ago
reaperducer 8 hours ago
I bind Delete to F12 on every machine I use. It's a wonderful thing.
leoc 10 hours ago
kps 9 hours ago
The Star left cluster are primarily operations that pair the left hand on the keys with the right hand on the mouse. This derives from Engelbart's Mother of All Demos with the left-side keyset paired with the right-side mouse.
leoc 8 hours ago
Sure (this is demonstrated in the linked video, for instance) but the ZXCV group is pretty similar in that respect. Even for operations which involve the mouse it's preferable to drag only one hand far away from its home position, rather than both of them. (Especially since the video evidence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn4vC80Pv6Q seems to suggest that Star users tended to move their left hand only after making the mouse selection, instead of prepositioning it.) And the Star's Undo key, which presumably doesn't require help from mouse input and is likely to be needed after a non-mouse action, isn't placed any more conveniently near the home row: it's simply in the right side-cluster rather than the left one.
bdavbdav 8 hours ago
reaperducer 8 hours ago
Conflating meta keys with control keys is one of the more pernicious abominations Microsoft saddled on the tech world.
Shift - Control - Meta - Super - Hyper. Each has its place.
neilv 7 hours ago
https://deskauthority.saberkeebs.com/wiki.themk.org/index.ph...
https://deskthority.net/download/file.php?id=59173
Early Mac design was excellent overall, but decided not to include these keys (maybe they were leaning towards Smalltalk-like context menus?), and then seemed to go into more cryptic and power-user in-the-know keyboard direction (like with the 3-icon key including special support for flipping burgers):
https://unsung.aresluna.org/_media/key-symbols-we-lost-to-ti...
Sardtok 11 hours ago
fasola 11 hours ago
Sardtok 8 hours ago
fasola 7 hours ago
tom_ 6 hours ago
(I've had blank looks from a few colleagues after suggesting they press the Return key (that being the term I used to refer to the Return key) - which makes me wonder what percentage of people even know that Return is the name of a key. Perhaps we should retire the term entirely.)
fasola 6 hours ago
pdpi 3 hours ago
fasola 3 hours ago
LoganDark an hour ago
Numpad Enter is definitely a distinct key though, but I've never seen it treated differently than Return (except for randomly not working in some contexts that accept Return)
addaon 3 hours ago
kensai 3 hours ago
m463 2 hours ago
They did it right with respect to key shape.
- the keys were scuplted. This eliminated touch-typing problems because your fingers would find the edges of keys then self-center in the middle of a concave surface.
- the modifier keys were convex, so you could detect them easily
- you could plug the mouse into the keyboard. (though there were power problems with higher-powered mice)
I really hated it when they went to flat keyboards.
Functionality went out the window. You couldn't find the center of keys, so it was easier to make mistakes because of lack of feel.
The only nice thing I could say about them is that they were attractive to look at in a way, and the short throw was very light.
cesaref 9 hours ago
Given those in charge were probably one finger typists if that, and befuddled by technology, they would collectively have decided that computers should be standardised so that learnt skills would be transferrable, and therefore they probably imposed ideas like standardised keyboard layouts.
Of course it turned out that the next generation were totally capable of operating computers without any formal training, were totally fine with different operating systems, different keyboard layouts, different applications etc, and so there was probably lots of wasted effort solving a non-existent problem.
II2II 10 hours ago
bawolff 10 hours ago
II2II 6 hours ago
bawolff 4 hours ago
II2II 3 hours ago
kps 9 hours ago
alentred 7 hours ago
graypegg 7 hours ago
https://f.toi.sh/fr-ca-mbp.jpg (Pardon the dust!! You never really look too closely as your keyboard until you have to take a picture of it eh?)
Tab, capslock, shift, backspace, and return are all symbols-only. I feel like I have a pretty good ambient understanding of what they mean at a glance so I think I've always seen them on fr-CA layouts I've used.
Was trying to communicate to a designer in Ontario a while ago that we could use the backspace symbol for a correction key in a PIN entry view. We were working on an iOS application so I was immediately thinking that the apple default UI font would have exactly that "chevron with a cross" symbol styled how it looks on the keyboard somewhere in it. Designer was pretty confused about it though, so I think it's probably just fr-CA keyboards.
lbourdages 2 hours ago
I'm willing to bet that more than 99% of the Canadian Multilingual CSA keyboards on PCs are used by public servants. There is another (French Canadian)layout that is much more common among consumers.
Of course, the Mac side is different, having somehow chosen to align with the (IMO superior) CSA layout.
alentred 7 hours ago
I would also add ZX Spectrum keyboard with all the keywords on it. G/GOTO, L/LET, P/PRINT etc. Was lots of fun.
We should have engraved common actions on the keys when we could, before every software invented its own set of keyboard shortcuts.
stuart78 10 hours ago
cosmic_cheese 9 hours ago
bhouston 10 hours ago
pell 9 hours ago
xnx 11 hours ago
domh 8 hours ago
Cockbrand 11 hours ago
Findecanor 10 hours ago
bawolff 10 hours ago
wa2flq 9 hours ago
I personally miss the Plato IV Plasma Terminal Keyboard - https://codex.retro1.org/plato:tutor:plato_keyboard and http://xahlee.info/kbd/plato_iv_keyboard.html . Those keys on the right with represented many common functions. But the entire keyboard was designed for a future where computers would facilitate many worlds, not just a replacement for a typewriter or calculator.
reaperducer 8 hours ago
Panic, for example, gets this right. In Transmit, pressing Return connects to a server. Pressing Enter enters rename mode.
behnamoh 11 hours ago
~!@#$%^&*()_+
And every programming language uses a subset of these. But why these symbols? Why didn't people add more symbols to the keyboard?kevin_thibedeau 11 hours ago
II2II 10 hours ago
(Strictly speaking, people did continue adding symbols. We used to talk about code pages: when the MSB was 0, the other 7 bits were ASCII. When the MSB was 1, the other 7 bits were a user selected code pade.)
Findecanor 10 hours ago
Macintosh keyboard layouts tend to have many symbols on Option-combinations but they are not always printed.
kps 9 hours ago
You might like https://juliamono.netlify.app/#fnref:zscode
kragen 4 hours ago
If you're interested in how ASCII ended up that way, Tom Jennings wrote an excellent history: https://www.sensitiveresearch.com/Archive/CharCodeHist/index...
Of course, larger character sets that include ASCII as a subset do keep adding symbols: https://www.unicode.org/alloc/Pipeline.html and some programming languages do use non-ASCII symbols: https://docs.raku.org/language/operators
______
⁂ Smalltalk's continued use of ASCII-1963, among other things so that it could use ← as the assignment operator, is the reason that OO programmers got in the habit of using CamelCase, and are still doing so today, despite using a character set containing the underscore, and, typically, programming languages in which underscores are valid characters
gus_massa 12 hours ago
Did the editor repace :) with [happy-face]?
Cockbrand 11 hours ago
fasola 11 hours ago
gus_massa 5 hours ago
dmd 3 hours ago
gus_massa 2 hours ago
I guess:
Click on the HN discussion > Click on the article > Notice the weird CMS error > Copy the sentense > Click back > Click back again by mistake(?) > Click on the discussion of the wrong article (?) > Paste the sentence > Notice that HN eat the emoji > Add the version in brackets.