Many events aren't even book related-- see events for Lego building, homework help, even Dungeons and Dragons events.
I wonder if there's a resurgence across the world where libraries are places of community sharing.
Japan's book scene is moving from bookstores to libraries (untranslatedjp.substack.com)
186 pointsby herbertl4 days ago78 comments
akman 11 hours ago
As the author noted, I see libraries becoming more and more centers of community, notably in the Bay Area (California, USA). Just check out the events at all of the Santa Clara County library system (8 libraries that share books): https://sccl.bibliocommons.com/v2/events?_gl=1*11u0hec*_ga*M...
carabiner 11 hours ago
In Seattle they're mostly homeless shelters.
popalchemist 11 hours ago
In LA, it's about 50/50. But in case you aren't aware, this is one of the purposes of libraries.
cube00 11 hours ago
Depends on the library.
If you appear to be sleeping, staff will check on your welfare, and wake you up.
https://www.spl.org/about-us/policies/community-use-agreemen...
popalchemist 7 hours ago
I don't mean it's a shelter for them in the literal sense. As in a place to sleep. It IS however meant to be a safe harbor - a place they are welcome to simply EXIST.
Ask google "is the ethos of libraries to help the homeless"
Here's what it says: The core ethos of libraries is to provide universal, equitable access to information, resources, and safe spaces for all members of a community, including people experiencing homelessness. While public libraries are not specifically designed to be homeless shelters or social service agencies, their foundational commitment to inclusivity means they naturally serve as a vital lifeline for marginalized populations.
This has always been the case.
carefree-bob 7 hours ago
I'm not sure what you mean by "ethos of libraries", but this was not the original intent of libraries, or the "ethos" that most voters would use when deciding whether to fund a library or not.
The problem with reimagining the role of publicly funded institutions and ascribing a new "ethos" to them that is not supported by the public is that funding gets cut and libraries get shut down.
If you want to know the original ethos of libraries, it was to disseminate knowledge at low cost to members of the community. Not to be socially inclusive. Not to make people feel welcome. Not to provide "safe spaces". But to provide access to knowledge. By subverting this ethos, we have also subverted a lot of the funding model and political support, which is why libraries are having a difficult time right now.
popalchemist 4 hours ago
Perhaps you do not know anyone who works in a library. Go ask one. This has been the ethos for over 100 years in America.
carefree-bob 4 hours ago
In fact, I do. Maybe you are in a bubble, but go ahead and try to get people to vote for public funding of "safe spaces" and then have them vote for public funding of "convenient access to media for taxpayers", and see which proposition gets the most votes. You will be surprised, and then you will accuse America of being a fascist country, when the actual ethos of people are revealed.
popalchemist 4 hours ago
https://www.ala.org/advocacy/diversity/librariesrespond/serv...
it was formalized in the 60's but there was a precedent going back AT LEAST to the wild west.
carefree-bob 4 hours ago
[flagged]
popalchemist 3 hours ago
The ALA is the canonical answer as to what is official policy of American libraries. Whether you agree with its politics or not, those policies and the ethos underlying them are not something new.
You're clearly a right wing nut (since "libraries are more than buildings with books" is something you find "poltiical" and facts are something to be rejected), just come out and say it.
badpun 4 hours ago
Ancient Rome had libraries already, I'm pretty sure their "ethos" wasn't about inclusivity and safe spaces. Somewhere along the line from then to now, it got subverted.
mepian 43 minutes ago
Ancient Rome also had slavery.
gyomu 11 hours ago
De facto it is in the US, but it is the only country in the world where that is the case.
LtWorf 11 hours ago
There's often smelly people napping in Sweden. I presume their housing situation isn't the best. Or they are not mentally capable of cleaning themselves.
SyneRyder 10 hours ago
There's definitely some of it happening in Australia. I wouldn't regard libraries as the safest of places. I had a period where I tried working from there on my laptop, before realizing I was incredibly naive and there were a lot of homeless and mentally ill people there. Took me a while to realize why people would tell me to avoid the men's toilets in the library as well.
imawakegnxoxo 5 hours ago
Homeless problem in Australia right now is insane
People sleeping in every car park at parks and beaches etc
I'm a night person with bad insomnia so I often go for drives or walks at night and a lot of my favourite places to go are now heavily populated by people sleeping in their cars
SyneRyder 17 minutes ago
Night person here too - midnight walks during an Australian summer are excellent.
The homeless situation isn't quite that bad where I am in Perth's suburbs, but there was a guy living out of his 4WD in a local shopping center carpark for a while. He had a prominent sign about his situation asking for money, but to his credit he was offering to do things in return (he helped a family member with a deflated tire once). Many of the homeless in Perth city seem to be mental health cases though, where a skilled job providing an income that could support themselves is unlikely.
emptybits 6 hours ago
It's a trend in Canada also. Libraries are being seen as a social safety net.
https://www.policyalternatives.ca/news-research/public-libra...
TulliusCicero 11 hours ago
It really shouldn't be. We should have dedicated shelters for that.
Relying on libraries to be de facto homeless shelters is bad for everyone compared to the alternative of dedicated facilities. It's worse for homeless people, worse for the library and staff, and worse for patrons.
crooked-v 10 hours ago
Unfortunately, the US is filled with people who are happy to make their own lives worse if it hurts people they don't like even more.
bobthepanda 6 hours ago
The problem is that we’ve wound up in an unhappy place due to the weird perverse incentives of ideology. Taking homeless people off the street, whether to a hospital or jail, costs a lot of money; so we lack something to do in a climate where a good chunk of the populace is rabidly against paying more money for anything.
TulliusCicero 2 hours ago
I think you're right that people are against these things, but wrong about the reasons.
Taking homeless people to jail because they're homeless just seems stupid and pointless, not to mention harmful to the person going to jail.
Shelters have the issue where people don't want them near where they live (for often justifiable reasons) but obviously they have to go somewhere.
mulakosag 5 hours ago
Then don't call it a library, call it a homeless support center with books. i see the same thing here in austin, the central library is full of homeless people, shouting in silent room, shooting guns in restrooms. I love books and libraries more than anything but it saddens when place for knowledge are converted into daytime homeless shelters.
tokai 2 hours ago
You can always spot the Americans because any talk about libraries will turn into whining about homeless people existing. You should fix your social system.
canadiantim 7 hours ago
That's still community
winrid 6 hours ago
A smelly one
_eht 4 hours ago
We are so glad you have access to showers and hygiene products with no regard. Even so, you are the kind of off-putting that soap can not fix.
imp0cat 4 hours ago
So it's something like a gym? ;)
Markoff 2 hours ago
One Prague branch I frequent is hang out spot for kids to be hooked on free wifi and stare at smartphone, there is no better place to stare at your smartphone than in library full of books! I even complained* why they won't set some time limits per connection to make it annoying enough to be useless for kids (but still usable for someone for few minutes to look up some book reviews/database), but seems everyone including management is addicted to smartphones.
It's nice that library is welcoming young people, though not sure if encouraging their smartphone addiction is the right way to attract someone.
*main reason for complaint wasn't kids staring at phones and playing games, but shouting swear words during gaming on phone and playing it loudly without earbuds, when I am visiting with small kids who are interested in actual books
foundart 9 hours ago
SF folks: check out https://www.milibrary.org/
Loughla 8 hours ago
Libraries have always had events and activities related to books and other things not book related.
People are just now noticing them. This is a great thing and I hope it sticks.
I believe people are getting sick of every interaction being monetized and are finally seeking out spaces where you can learn and interact with others without that threat.
rapind 5 hours ago
> I believe people are getting sick of every interaction being monetized and are finally seeking out spaces where you can learn and interact with others without that threat.
Shhh... you're going to get libraries monetized.
alephnerd 8 hours ago
When I was a kid in the 1990s and 2000s, libraries were already de facto community centers as well in the Bay, LA, and BC.
lolakutty an hour ago
>I wonder if there's a resurgence across the world where libraries are places of community sharing.
I feel there is, but I am not yet seeing anything concrete.
Vinnl 21 minutes ago
> I wonder if there's a resurgence across the world where libraries are places of community sharing.
Just last week new stats came out [1] that library attendance by young people in the Netherlands is going up again, so possibly!
[1] https://nos.nl/artikel/2630399-meer-locaties-meer-bezoekers-...
_carbyau_ 4 hours ago
I'm divided.
On the one hand, a quiet, unobtrusive cafe in the library seems nice.
On the other hand, I like the library precisely because it has so little of the advertising/commercial bullshit of every day.
A cafe AND a bookstore trying to sell you stuff feels over the line.
socalgal2 3 hours ago
Starbucks in bookstores? Hasn't that been a thing at Barnes and Noble for 35 years?
Tsutaya has been trying to re-invent itself because yea, it's main businesses, video rental, video/DVD sales, and music CD sales died to digital/streaming. It's not clear it's succeeding. It's unclear how they are doing. They pivoted to bookstore + starbucks + luxury stationery + lifestyle goods. Recently they've been trying co-working spaces "Share Lounge", you can pay by the hour or get monthly subscriptions. Whether this will prevent them from dying is not clear at all.
As for libraries, yes, turning them into community centers sounds great!
That said, I think the blog post is jumping to lots of unfounded conclusions.
kidnoodle 2 hours ago
My local library collocates with a cinema these days - I, and many others, were originally super sceptical about this, mostly because the arrangement made a public service and space sort beholden to a commercial entity.
Happily in practice it has turned out to be great, and the combined space operates really effectively as a community ‘third space’. Obviously because of the private sector aspect of this there’s a significant risk in terms of how sustainable it is, but moderated somewhat by the council owning the actual building both live in.
layman51 5 hours ago
> A library with 100,000 visitors in a town of only 9,000 people
That reminds me that there is a library that I believe became a bit viral on social media and now it seems like it receives so many visitors to the surrounding area and it is still quiet, but it is funny because it seems way more crowded and there's way more movement that I remember in the past.
That's why with this post, I sort of wonder whether this is something that these towns really want to have. I am under the impression that in Japan, they generally want visitors, but then they probably end up with issues from people not knowing what to do and even behaving badly.
rmason 7 hours ago
We have an excellent library in East Lansing. My sister and I went there every week with our late Mother when we were kids. I was in there recently at an AI meeting and I noticed that it was changing into a bit of a community hub as well.
Wouldn't have ever thought of it as a meeting place for user groups but they are starting to actively encourage it. I saw it as a very positive development. During COVID they advertised that anyone could use their parking lot for the free Wi-Fi. They must have had the coverage cause the rather large parking lot was packed. They must have tuned it because I sure can't get coverage in most of the parking lots of the fast food franchises where most of their customers these days only use drive-thru.
jagged-chisel 7 hours ago
The fast food franchises are likely less interested in loiterers than customer turnover.
ionwake 4 days ago
I liked the article. Everytime I discoered a unique place I want to tell the world about it and then I realize that could ruin it so I dont.
Its ironic
darknavi 10 hours ago
It reminds of one of the later scenes from Secret Life of Walter Mitty when Sean (photographer) decides not to take a picture of the elusive snow leopard in front of them.
> Walter Mitty: Are you going to take it?
> Sean O'Connell: Sometimes I don't. If I like a moment, for me, personally, I don't like to have the distraction of the camera. I just want to stay in it.
> Walter Mitty: Stay in it?
> Sean O'Connell: Yeah. Right there. Right here.
FlowingRiver 9 hours ago
Very true. If everyone on the planet was allowed to walk over the great pyramids of Egypt, they would be pounded into dust. Sometimes it is better just to observe and move on.
NeutralCrane 10 hours ago
The most interesting thing in the article to me is that there was a dual library/bookstore, and that it’s privately owned. I don’t think I’ve encountered a library that wasn’t publicly owned in the US.
cwnyth 10 hours ago
In the US, private libraries tend to be non-circulating, archival, specialist, or owned by private schools.
AraceliHarker 9 hours ago
Claiming Takeo City Library is a private operation is factually incorrect because it is strictly "publicly owned" by the city government. In fact, the city owns the land and building, and pays the private company, Culture Convenience Club (CCC), a management fee from local tax revenues to run the public library. Conversely, CCC pays monthly rent to the city to operate the Starbucks and bookstore inside. Since the entire facility is publicly owned and funded by taxpayers, CCC has zero ownership and is merely a contracted operator.
alephnerd 8 hours ago
> The most interesting thing in the article to me is that there was a dual library/bookstore...
At least in California, libraries often have a community run used bookstore whose proceeds are used to help the library run community programming.
rafram 3 hours ago
None of the libraries in New York City are publicly owned. NYPL, BPL, and QPL are all private nonprofits that receive public funding. It’s an odd arrangement.
Molitor5901 12 hours ago
It would be interesting if libraries also operated, say, cafes. Rules apply of course, but it might create a job and add something extra to a library.
ktallett 12 hours ago
Japan already has a range of cafes that let you read books, manga, or listen to music
UncleOxidant 11 hours ago
There's a library in the neighboring suburb that has a little cafe in the lobby.
jaw 11 hours ago
When visiting Delft in the Netherlands I was extremely jealous that the library there not only had a cafe, but that the cafe served wine and the whole place was open until like 11pm. Haven’t encountered anything like that in the US.
therealdrag0 3 hours ago
Oh wow I remember having the same feeling there. I had forgotten about that, thanks for the memory.
LtWorf 11 hours ago
I think at least a couple do have cafes here in Göteborg
TulliusCicero 9 hours ago
This would definitely be a great thing to add.
One thing that I don't like about American culture is that people are a little too hesitant about adding 'retail' into publicly-owned spaces. There's a reflexive attitude of that being A Bad Thing, even though most Americans who visit, say, Japan, really appreciate the various shops and kiosks they have in transit stations over there.
I also really enjoyed in Germany when at the top of some hike there'd be an inn+restaurant, something Americans seem to treat as nearly anathema.
ikr678 8 hours ago
Given the rest of American culture is intensely commercialised, I can see why there is a desire to protect the remaining non-commercial spaces.
My local library has an indepenently run coffee kiosk out front, the Council (local govt) own the facility and lease it to the operator, and presumably have some lease terms about allowable signage and branding.
I'd probably feel differently if it was a mega franchise like Starbucks or McCafe right at the entrance of a civic building.
TulliusCicero 2 hours ago
I understand why, but it often results in bad outcomes. Part of why transit in other countries is better is often precisely because of greater commercialization. It's not just that it's more convenient for travelers, but also it makes money to fund transit.
RugnirViking 5 minutes ago
this. and of course, the financial structure of these arrangements matters greatly. If the food places in the stations are making good money and the trains themselves are breaking even, you want the money to be flowing to the same people who run the trains, lest the train operator stops operating and the food places suddenly find themselves without customers.
This means you can't for example have both the train operators and the food places pay rent to some third party that owns the station, it has to be the transit company owning the station to benefit from the footfall to it
code_duck 9 hours ago
Near where I live, there is a library facility that has a cafe. However, it's not a regular book-lending library... it's run by the country library system, but it's actually a free coworking space. They even have a music room with 4 stringed instruments, a computer, and an electronic drum kit as well as a podcasting studio.
bee_rider 9 hours ago
The library in my town had coffee, but it was more like a library that had a little coffee than a cafe with a library, if that makes sense.
Jach 5 hours ago
The Tokyo Metropolitan Central Library's top floor has a cafeteria.
CharlieDigital 10 hours ago
I recently had a similar episode as the author in another east Asia country: Taiwan.
Found myself in Taitung (along the much less densely populated, remote east coast) with several inches of rain forecast. Spent the day at the Taitung County Public Library [0] and it was a very pleasant public space which had more tourists than patrons!
Shots of the interior for anyone interested (surprisingly Scandinavian): https://youtu.be/gq8xlk_JEG4?t=108
ChickeNES 10 hours ago
> Are you a book lover?
> If you are, I suspect you already do this: when you travel abroad, you find yourself walking into a local bookstore.
> I do it everywhere, not only in Japan but also abroad. My shelves hold some Chinese and Russian books even though I cannot read a word of them. A bookstore is one of the best places to understand the local culture: what people there are curious about, what they worry about, what they love.
This sounds more like a fetish for physical books to me? I find it bizarre myself, books are just knowledge containers, if you can't read them...what's the point?
xoxxala 9 hours ago
I do something similar with boardgames. I like to import foreign language games or pick them when traveling. They don’t need to be in English for me to enjoy and appreciate them. I have games from Germany, France, Spain, Japan, China, Brazil, and the UK.
My favorite is Kolejka, a Polish game about queuing at nearly empty stores during communism.
rtpg 8 hours ago
Book covers, seeing what kinda stuff is being talked about, the general vibe of the space itself.
Lots of fun to be had wandering about, and unless you're looking at a thing where the script is really indecipherable you can kinda figure out what the topic du jour is even in foreign languages.
It's fun to look at book covers and imagine what's in the contents too.
Sweepline 10 hours ago
Makes sense; libraries are the original 'subscription service' for knowledge. Good for sustainability and reader access.
pullstart 9 hours ago
Always enjoyed browsing Japanese bookstores, but libraries certainly make books more accessible. It's like the ultimate physical subscription service.
tolerance 10 hours ago
I can see this catching on in the US with a lot of cultural exceptions that would amplify the library as an either an ideological battleground or sanctuary.
henrywangxf 6 hours ago
That's Japan in its own style!
swingandamiss 10 hours ago
Time for the daily post on Japan. HN is obsessed with Japan and it's very weird.
phoghed 10 hours ago
User name relevant
rjh29 10 hours ago
It's true. But I'm just happy it's not another AI post
FlowingRiver 9 hours ago
A wild take I have seen was "Japan is the white mans Wakanda". It is a rough way of saying something important.
There are many parts of Japanese culture that is seen as desirable and aspirational to others. The sense of social cohesion and politeness that is projected is seen as a good thing. Yes, the reality is more rough than is projected, Japan has its issues just like everywhere else. But when looking in from the outside, there are a lot of things that can be seen as goals for others to achieve.
This is the same reason why we are seeing a lot more positive takes on China nowadays. The image of a society that is progressing in a way considered desirable. It grabs folks attention, there is also the novelty of it all as it these of nations that look similar but different.
wredcoll 8 hours ago
It's a good point but I'd argue having something to aspire to is a good thing, even if it's fictional.
To steal and paraphrase "the important thing about fiction isn't that you see that dragons exist, it's that you learn that they can be defeated".
Of course trying to emulate something you think is desirable based on false pretenses is its own problem, but that gets complicated.
tokioyoyo 7 hours ago
Not to play into the bait, but there are a lot of people here who live in Japan. Funnily, during JST work hours, I notice more jp related posts in the front page, because well, NA is sleeping.
imp0cat 4 hours ago
Do you want to understand what this obsession is about? You probably need to visit Japan more.