The UN challenges five centuries of cartography (not-ship.com)

94 pointsby speckx17 hours ago190 comments

holgerschurig 3 hours ago

Weird title. Cargography constantly challenged itself. Look at some of the possible projections at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projections

They all compromise on something to enhance something else. You simply can't map the surface of a 3d shere (approximation of the earths globe) onto a 2d flat surface.

And so we have projections galore. And anyway was (and is) always free to use whatever fits best.

jillesvangurp 5 minutes ago

Google maps solves this neatly by just projecting the world map on a sphere when you zoom out. On desktop at least. It seems on mobile they use a 2D Mercator projection. But they just don't allow you to zoom out all the way, which is a bit weird. At least on my Pixel phone.

ketzu 8 minutes ago

I wonder how many people can reliably identify a Mercator projection when they see a map. My personal belief is that many people think map they have seen are Mercator projections when they are not and that "Mercator" is for most a synonym with "the normal world map I am used to", even though it (likely?) isn't.

Based on some quick search the atlas I used in school in Germany mostly used winkel-tripel projection (or the eckert IV). Does my memory remember the map accurate enough to determine that now? Hell no.

amadeuspagel 13 minutes ago

> Mercator is the most-widely used projection (Google Maps uses it, for one), but it was created in 1569 during the age of exploration. It's mostly good for sea navigation. Any straight line drawn on the map represents a constant compass bearing.

It's also good for knowing how much daylight you get somewhere or whether someone there is likely to be awake right now.

fedeb95 4 minutes ago

In order to understand why this is pushed, consider that maps through history rarely have been only a tool for the technician. Maps usually conveyed a lot of social information, take a look at medieval ones to understand the point.

This explains why the UN is making such an otherwise stupid resolution from a mathematical point of view.

RamblingCTO an hour ago

The comments overwhelmingly say: mercator isn't really in use. So what is this weird "decolonization" push then? Virtue signalling? I see it a lot from US-based people nowadays. Seems like a weird fetish as a European.

WelkinFolk 40 minutes ago

I don't think this is a US only thing. Even in India, where I'm from, everyone I've spoken to or know tends to like this change.

flohofwoe 23 minutes ago

Yeah but does the Indian education system actually use Mercator projection on their wall maps and geography learning material? E.g. how much is the average Indian citizen actually confronted with highly distorted map projections in their daily life (unless their professional job is involved with navigating ships of course where Mercator projections makes sense).

From my side of the world (Europe), this whole "Mercator projection is associated with colonialism" drama seems to have originated a couple of years ago in the US and was mostly amplified by social media outrage.

edflsafoiewq 22 minutes ago

The article actually maps out the history pretty well. This is basically a recrudescence of the Gall-Peters debate from the 70s, triggered by Boston Public Schools adopting Gall-Peters in 2017. The current wave has taken up the old fight with a less-ugly equiareal map.

flohofwoe 5 minutes ago

...which seems to have been an entirely US-centric debate which was rekindled in the late 2010s, which explains why Europeans seem kinda baffled by the discussion. But projections that preserve size much better than Mercator were common in education systems outside the US long before the 1970s - mostly a projection closer to Robinson which is a compromise between preserving relative size without distorting shape too much, while still mapped on a common 2D area (not sliced like orange peels).

goodcanadian an hour ago

Decades ago, when I was a child, I viewed the Mercator projection as old fashioned and stupid. In fact, I rarely saw it. Most maps were Robinson's projection (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson_projection). It baffles me that anyone still uses Mercator projection for any serious purpose.

masswerk 10 minutes ago

Goode homolosine projection, which enjoyed some popularity in the "Space Age", deserves a mention.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goode_homolosine_projection

JuniperMesos 4 hours ago

I never had the impression that the Mercator projection, or indeed any particular world map projection out of the dozens in common use, had any kind of official status that needed to be removed. It seems obvious to me that different map projections have different tradeoffs, and that any particular publisher of a world map can and does use whichever one makes sense for the information they're trying to convey.

c048 3 hours ago

This was also exactly what I was taught in school when I was 10 years old. We also saw examples of other maps from other parts in the world that put their location front and center.

That this map is a derivative of "a decolonization map", should be clear to anyone that this is just political posturing and not anything of actual use.

TitaRusell an hour ago

At least they're not renaming any lakes.

XorNot 22 minutes ago

I mean it also accurately depicts relative land mass sizes? For the purposes of the UN that seems fairly relevant compared to Mercator which is a good map if you're actually navigating a coast line but atrocious if you're trying to gauge how big the territory you're talking about actually is.

c048 11 minutes ago

Considering that this map also uses the curvature of the earth, any real useful size comparisons go away the further you move from the equator.

Creating a full 2d map from a 3d shape always has its challenges, and you need to pick and choose what you want out of it and what you're willing to sacrifice.

The only real way you can compare country sizes, is if you place them on the same long- and latitude, and besides each other.

boomboomsubban 2 hours ago

I assume the UN is a major publisher of maps, often featuring them on all sorts of pamphlets, websites, and if television is to be believed that backdrop for smoke filled meetings.

It makes sense they'd have a default and this would switch it.

bawolff 6 hours ago

I feel like people are making more of a fuss about this then it is. The UNGA isn't a body that controls what maps its member states use. They can make the recommendation of course, but it has yet to be seen if anyone follows it.

exabrial 5 hours ago

Yeah, that's my thoughts as well. The answer is literally in the article:

> Mercator useful for sailing

This is the only correct answer, and everything else is unscientific nonsense. It hasn't been replaced because... it just hasn't. Mercator + knots + nautical miles is a system that is extremely useful for navigation. Since we aren't sailing ships around a whole lot anymore, a lot of teachers forget to mention the relationship between the three. I imagine that was more common knowledge back in the day.

That being said, I do like the new proposed projection for how we use maps today. I think another useful tool would simply be overlay maps.

edoceo 4 hours ago

Why not just use KM? We should reduce the number of units of measure in 2026.

ViewTrick1002 3 hours ago

Because nautical miles is an angle measurement which then happens to be 1852 meters when you break it down.

jabl 2 hours ago

If you do positioning in degrees, minutes, and seconds (or decimal minutes which I guess is more common nowadays), a 'natural' length unit for navigation is a minute of longitude, which is the original definition of the nautical mile. And then we get velocity as nautical miles per hour, or knots.

Blame the French for reinventing the wheel instead of, say, using a 1/1000th of a nautical mile as the definition of the metre. Alas, that's all water under the bridge by now.

If you want to do navigation in SI units, the UTM projections (see sibling thread) typically do positioning in metres inside each grid square.

HPsquared 2 hours ago

Funnily enough the metre is defined by the globe as well: the arc from the equator to North pole is defined as 10,000 km. I think this might be where the alternative angle metrics came from, which went with the metre:

full circle is 400 grad, so a right angle (10,000 km) is 100 grad.

Then minutes and seconds are factors of 100, so a centesimal minute is 1 km and 1 centesimal second is 10 m.

pilchard123 15 minutes ago

Originally it was defined like that, but it was fairly quickly redefined as the distance between marks on a prototype platinum bar. It's had a couple of other definitions since then, but it's currently defined "by taking the fixed numerical value of the speed of light in vacuum c to be 299 792 458 when expressed in the unit ms⁻¹, where the second is defined in terms of the caesium frequency ΔνCs".

https://www.bipm.org/en/si-base-units/metre

brainwad 4 hours ago

Mercator is also useful for tiled maps, which is why web Mercator is a standard. The tiles always have nice north/south and east/west bounds and there is no difference in rendering depending on longitude or latitude. For software maps the better approach, as done by Google, is just to postprocess the Mercator tiles into a sphere at rendering time if the user is zoomed out enough.

holgerschurig 4 hours ago

> Mercator useful for sailing+

It is also used by the military (or at least NATO). They use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Transverse_Mercator_...

While most of that system is a way to tag coordinates that are "simpler" than just latitude and longitude to a position, it's underlying system is also the Mercator projection. And some properties of Mercator, e.g. that it is angle-correct. So you can use UTM e.g. in Elint for direction finding.

It's not distance or area correct, but for normal infantry this is meaningless, since this only shows on large scales, but not the slow scales of infantry.

jacobolus 3 hours ago

The transverse Mercator projection is completely different than what people are complaining about. The UTM system is roughly what you get if you only take a narrow band of the ordinary Mercator projection near the equator, but turn the globe 90°, and use the projection for a narrow strip of a specific longitude, with a different projection for each strip, overlapping at the seams.

It was adopted by the US military between WWI and WWII, and similar projections were adopted by other militaries around the same time, because earlier (non-conformal) map projections led to dramatic errors when they were used for artillery targeting.

jacobolus 3 hours ago

Maybe to be more precise, conformal projections like the transverse Mercator projection and the conformal conic projection were adopted by militaries after WWI, and the UTM system per se was created during WWII.

whatsThisBtn4 14 minutes ago

Yep.

The UN is a ceremonial organization that occasionally we get agreement on measurement units.

That's not what they teach in school though, and I think that genuinely is misinformation for Americans trying to understand international relations.

K12 teachers could almost get away with the one sentence: "Right is only a question among equals, for the strong do what they can, and the weak suffer as they must."

petermcneeley 4 hours ago

Ya people have no idea how big Africa truly is

Here is the UK in Africa: https://thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~!MTAyODQ3Nzg.NTkyNDI2Nw*...

Note of course this includes Scotland! The traditional English are basically a dot.

holgerschurig 4 hours ago

And people have no idea how diverse the cultures in Africa are.

skew-aberration 4 hours ago

I don't get why people say this / focus on Africa in this conversation. I've never thought Africa was small and was taught about the Berlin Conference, etc in school.

All the large continents are near the equator and hence the relative size of Africa, Australia, North/South America, Asia is not affected much by the projection. Antarctica is big too, even though wildly exaggerated by Mercator.

If anything, it makes more sense to say people don't realize how small UK/Europe is.

poulpy123 3 hours ago

Because they imply racism and colonialism

riffraff 3 hours ago

North America is very affected, Mercator makes it look as big or bigger than Africa when it's actually quite smaller.

skew-aberration 3 hours ago

Continents are in truesizeof btw. Asia is much bigger than Africa, North America is only a little smaller. When you account for the Sahara Desert of course, there is more usable land in North America.

structwafel 2 hours ago

https://openknowledge.fao.org/server/api/core/bitstreams/b35... Figure 10 shows that Africa has more Arable land than North America.

And I wouldn't call 29.6 <> 21.3 a little smaller, Africa is 39% bigger than North America.

pipes 3 hours ago

And northern Ireland

biorach 3 hours ago

Please no. Africa has suffered enough.

flohofwoe 14 minutes ago

I would expect that most people have seen a globe at least once in their life though? ;)

flohofwoe an hour ago

I would really like to know which parts of the world use Mercator projection on their standard school wall maps.

At least in Germany (and both former East and West) it certainly isn't in use since at least the 1950s (and probably much earlier), but instead a projection type that maps land masses closer to their actual relative sizes. Mercator is extremely rare and only used in very specialized professional maps (e.g. for navigation), but certainly not as the popular map projection in education.

Also don't schools use physical globes anymore?

This whole drama sounds like it's about a century late to the party tbh.

JdeBP 14 hours ago

I read the article thinking that it was not going to mention Dymaxion. Articles like this rarely do. The BBC has an article on the U.N. resolution (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly5r60v4mro), and it does not.

And then right at the bottom it went and mentioned Dymaxion.

Dymaxion is one of the few projections that actually shows Antarctica with something resembling its actual shape. Interestingly, to counter the people who say that the best thing to learn from is an actual globe, a couple of children's globes of the world that I had as a child had large metal caps around the axle that obscured most of Antarctica.

Any decent atlas uses a variety of projections, of course. The tatty, second-hand, older-than-I-am atlas that I had at school was already on to Interrupted Mollweide's Homolographic by page 3. (-:

hn993302 12 hours ago

Even computer maps at the time like Google Earth had distortion around the poles, as if they were pieced together in slices. So that combined with the globe caps are why I never really knew what they looked like as a kid.

alterom 5 hours ago

> Interestingly, to counter the people who say that the best thing to learn from is an actual globe, a couple of children's globes of the world that I had as a child had large metal caps around the axle that obscured most of Antarctica.

"I had toy globes which, unlike actual globes, covered up significant chunks of Earth, so actual globes are bad"

Solid logic, mate.

jbaber 4 hours ago

That's why I got my kids $1 inflatable globes. You can see the poles just fine.

seszett 2 hours ago

Honestly it's so difficult to find a map that satisfies all of one's requirements for teaching kids if you're a bit rigorous.

I might be asking bit too much but I want Antarctica to be shown correctly, I want all microstates to be shown, I want all the "(UK)" and "(FR)" mentions for overseas territories to be there, ideally Taipei to be shown as a capital, etc, and that's only what I care about, I'm sure there are dozens of other details I don't think of that are wrong on most maps.

I ended up making my own world map with d3 (that was 10 years ago, I don't know what I would use today) and print it at a print shop. I printed a dymaxion map (with ocean blue for the gaps) and another more "normal" projection though I don't actually remember which one, with Antarctica as an insert. It wasn't even expensive, and in addition I was able to put all the names in both French and Dutch.

You might assume that in Belgium, it would at least be possible to find bilingual maps but no, if you can find one that's not in English you're already lucky.

antonvs 2 hours ago

The standard Dymaxion projection centers on the North Pole, which doesn’t address the whole issue of favoring the northern hemisphere.

adwn 35 minutes ago

Both the world's population (with 88% to 12%) and landmass (with 68% to 32%) favor the northern hemisphere, so it makes sense to favor it in a general map as well.

GoblinSlayer 16 minutes ago

How australians see it? Is north up or bottom?

Rebelgecko 2 hours ago

You might get a kick out of the AuthaGraph projection, if you haven't seen it before (although Antarctica may be a smidge distorted relative to dymaxion)

edflsafoiewq 5 minutes ago

I really like oblique projections. Have you seen this neat one from Kerkovits - A Low-Distortion Oblique Map Projection of the World’s Landmasses (2024)?

https://files.catbox.moe/k11gqq.avif

fedeb95 6 minutes ago

We are in 2026: why not a rotating globe?

simonw 15 hours ago

I vibe-coded up an animated transition between Mercator and Equal Earth (using D3) the other day, if anyone's interested in that comparison: https://tools.simonwillison.net/equal-earth

gumby 15 hours ago

Very nice!

morepork 7 hours ago

People say Russia, Canada and Greenland look big in the Mercator projection, but what they miss is it makes Antarctica enormous, your app shows it nicely. So much so that many maps just cut off the bottom otherwise it looks a bit silly, but then the equator isn't in the middle.

bmandale 6 hours ago

The mercator projection has neither a top nor a bottom, it extends infinitely upwards and downwards. Hence all visualizations of it cut it off at some arbitrary point. Making antarctica humorously large does nothing besides make a point.

MichaelRo 5 hours ago

I stopped reading at "vibe-coded".

imp0cat 5 hours ago

It's kinda obvious when you see the username, isn't it?

But still, it's not a red flag in this particular example.

mlaretallack 5 hours ago

Very cool, Its interesting to see what happens to Antarctica.

theanonymousone 5 hours ago

I came across AuthaGraph projection some time ago and got hooked to it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AuthaGraph_projection

A version of it including political borders my desktop wallpaper for a long time, until I decided to not change default wallpaper on my new devices anymore.

nelox 10 minutes ago

Now Africa looks even more enticing

decimalenough 15 hours ago

It's kind of funny how the colonial convenience of having the 0 longitude line pass through Greenwich, UK ends up making Africa the most prominent place on the world map, since the centerpoint (0,0) is just off the African coast. This was true with Mercator as well, but Equal Earth emphasizes just how huge the African continent actually is.

gumby 15 hours ago

For a while, France had its own prime meridian with 0 degrees passing of course through Paris: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_meridian

globular-toast 2 hours ago

It still does. I have one going through my house too. The problem is nobody else knows or cares about those meridians. It's quite fortunate the US didn't invent its own, what with its zeal for being different. We're quite lucky to still have just the one.

hn993302 12 hours ago

Yeah, the prime meridian selection is the actually colonial part of the Mercator map. It's not like they were trying to make Europe look big, but they were trying to make London central.

jameshart 5 hours ago

The prime meridian being the least skewed area of the equal earth and Robinson projections, with their bulgy nature, actually serves to make them both offer somewhat inconvenient depictions of places like Alaska and New Zealand and Japan.

Mercator is far more globally evenhanded in that regard, being a cylindrical projection.

ButlerianJihad 9 hours ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_meridians

  The Washington meridians are four meridians that were used as prime meridians in the United States which pass through Washington, D.C.

decimalenough 5 hours ago

Don't give Trump any ideas.

t-3 4 hours ago

The Meridian of America... coming soon on a limited edition Golden Map of America.

Featuring all 244 American States!

somat 4 hours ago

This is the source of my favorite border dispute.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Tahoe#Interstate_boundary...

In summary there is a border dispute between California and Nevada, It was exacerbated by some surveying errors but the real problem appears to be the definitions of the sate borders, California was defined using one method(120 degrees longitude west of Greenwich) and Nevada was defined using another method (37 degrees longitude west of Washington) at the time it was thought these two methods were equivalent but it later turned out they are not. Congress does not have the authority to change state borders so it is up to the states to reach an agreement. and they have not. So the dispute is still technically on going.

Researching this also lead to the most hilarious passive aggressive thing I have seen in a constitution.

"All territory lying West of and adjoining the boundary line herein prescribed, which the State of California may relinquish to the Territory or State of Nevada, shall thereupon be embraced within and constitute a part of this State."

We really wanted that area east of the Sierra Nevada mountains, they would form a perfect natural boundary, but CA has already claimed it. If CA ever wants to give it up we want to make sure it is explicitly in the constitution to accept it.

emmelaich 4 hours ago

Semi-related, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Times_at_the_El_Royale is a great movie.

ks2048 3 hours ago

Sounds like a decent name for a sports team - should have used that instead of Commanders.

JuniperMesos 4 hours ago

The location of the 0 longitude line has less to do with the British colonial empire as such, and more to do with the fact that the British were the first people on Earth to invent a way of measuring longitude at sea accurately (John Harrison's famous marine chronometer). Of course these are ultimately related facts - the same package of technology that allowed the British to produce people like John Harrison who were capable of innovating a marine chronometer also allowed them to produce ocean-going ships that could conquer a global maritime colonial empire (and that had a use for marine chronometers).

There was in fact a rival 0 longitude line passing through Paris, France, that the French used for many years before standardizing on the British system; although this system would equally have resulted in the 0,0 point being somewhere in the ocean west of the African coast.

oofabz 4 hours ago

In an alternate reality, the prime meridian could have been chosen to pass through Florence, making 180° and the edges of the world map pass cleanly through the Bering Strait.

kspacewalk2 16 hours ago

Robinson projection is a good enough, boring compromise, if the UN was interested in that.

tensor 16 hours ago

No one needs a compromise. The world (except the US) agreed to use this new map together. It's not a conflict.

mdp2021 16 hours ago

Somebody who does not represent anybody "agreed" - not us.

tensor 16 hours ago

I'm Canadian. Canada represents me. They voted on this. That's how the world works. Sometimes my government is not the one I voted for and my interests are not represented, or sometimes my interests are not the majority in my country. That's life.

No one is forcing you to use the new map, you can keep your old map. No one will arrest you for it. Enjoy!

andsoitis 4 hours ago

By when is Canada going to be using the new map?

holgerschurig 4 hours ago

This question is nonsensical. Canada is not ONE identity. It's millions of people, hundred thousands of companies and organizations. Go and ask them individually.

Also, the UN voted to use this map for itself and suggested (!) that others should use it. It never said that everyone has to use that map. It actually said that this voting is "non-binding".

holgerschurig 4 hours ago

Well, the underlying thinking "only people I directly voted for can do things" is wrong. I guess you never directly voted for your minister of economy, or? In many countries people don't directly vote for the prime minister, chancellor etc.

The key term some people never learned in school is "direct democracy" vs. "indirect democracy".

Even many clubs, e.g. in Germany the ADAC, have systems where people vote for an assembly (or, in politics: a parliament). And then the assembly vote fot ehri CO (or, in politics, for their chancellor). Now, it can happen that this chancellor together with 26 other head of states is a member of the Europen Council (EUCO, one of the 7 bodies of the EU, what btw most people all the time intermingle). And that this EUCO now votes on their president.

In your logic, this presidency of the EUCO is then null and void. Because not directly elected by citizens of the EU.

In my logic, I realize that this position is removed from the people, but it still done by a democratic process. A multi-stage process, but still democratic. And that it still has some bearing.

Asking for the whole world population having an election on e.g. the UN Secretary General --- under the implication that only this would give representation --- is bogus.

mdp2021 2 hours ago

Oh no Mr. Schurig. I never praised "direct vote" (that would even worsen it).

I implied instead that there is a crisis in representation.

(...You could be German and you have not noticed, in spite of all the vocal effort in the North? That and all the other similar signals clearly affecting current history.)

nisegami 16 hours ago

Representing a 3D sphere-like surface on a 2d plane definitionally requires compromise.

jsLavaGoat 16 hours ago

"The world" is not represented by the UN General Assembly. Did you vote for your representative?

raincole 16 hours ago

The UN does not dictate which map you or your government or your school or Google uses.

jsLavaGoat 6 hours ago

I didn’t say it did, I said the UN is not a democratic body. He said the world decided. What is your problem?

andsoitis 4 hours ago

You didn’t in fact use the word democratic at all. You used the word “represent”.

Muromec 15 hours ago

I didn't vote for a foreign minister of my country, but his job is to represent my country, including in UN. This is fine.

kspacewalk2 15 hours ago

To say that "the world agreed" on something based on a General Assembly resolution is an interesting claim, if rather bold.

marcus_holmes an hour ago

Is there any other way that the world could officially agree on something?

sgc 7 hours ago

One can still note a poor decision based on its merits.

An equal area projection map is obviously valuable. But it's practically asinine to pick a projection that distorts land features when there are several equal area projections that do not.

Further, Ukraine had to abstain from this vote because they shoehorned in something ridiculous considering the official position of the UN members that Crimea is Ukraine [1], and Crimea is depicted as outside of Ukraine.

I have no idea if there are other hidden yet important changes, since there is hardly any commentary apart from size and shape.

[1] https://ukraine-war-analytics.com/history/international-reco...

SiempreViernes 27 minutes ago

No, the resolution doesn't include a map, it's purely about which projection to use so obviously it doesn't mention any land borders.

As best I can tell the Ukrainian ambassador saw the example map made by the Equal Earth creator in 2014 with its somewhat questionable choice in colouring Crimea and saw an opportunity for virtue signalling. Or maybe he really thought the vote was about that specific political map from 2014.

bawolff 6 hours ago

UNGA votes are non binding symbolic grandstanding. This vote does not mean the world agreed to it. its more like the world agreed to think about it.

Will countries actually change their map projections? That has yet to be seen. Maybe they will, maybe they won't That has yet to be seen.

akie 3 hours ago

The whole world thought about it and everyone except the US said “good idea!”

bawolff 2 hours ago

Well, a bunch of people on the world stage thought it would score good political points (and/or they thought opposing it would make them look bad with no upside because its a non binding vote). That doesn't mean the people who make and use maps thought it was a good idea. If anything, the fact this is coming from politicians instead of people who use/make maps is probably negative signal for it actually being adopted. If the people who actually use/make maps wanted this, they would just do it, they wouldn't wait for the UN to say something.

holgerschurig 3 hours ago

Mercator already did compromise on area and length to have "rhumb lines" (used for navigation, but also direction finding) be straight.

Other map projections (we have hundreds!) compromise on other things to improve on others. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projections

So yes, we definitely NEED compromise and not some strongman that says, due to limited knowledge "it is how it is, forever".

atoav 16 hours ago

Why would the world feel the need to compromise when all UN countries, except for one agree on the projection. The solution is simply to ignore the minority, especially if it has a government that itself has always refused to compromise with others.

kspacewalk2 14 hours ago

It's a GA resolution. Vanuatu gets the same vote as India. No actually consequential global decisions could ever be made this way, so it's no wonder it's mostly used for symbolic votes like this one.

andsoitis 4 hours ago

When are all these countries planning to switch over to the new map?

flexagoon 16 hours ago

Here's an image I made to show the difference between Robinson and Equal Earth:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Comparison_of_Equal_...

Whichever you prefer, what matters is that we should all just stop using Mercator.

poncho_romero 15 hours ago

Why? Mercator is useful and familiar to billions of people.

WillAdams 6 hours ago

Well, we should use Mercator for its intended purpose (only), which is to accurately show/determine angles for navigation....

Apocryphon 16 hours ago

I could’ve sworn that Robinson had already replaced Mercator by the ‘90s, so I was surprised to see defenders of the latter.

neuronexmachina 16 hours ago

I like the aesthetics of Robinson, but it gives you the worst of both worlds: it's neither conformal like Mercator nor equal-area for honest data visualization. It's essentially a spline fit over 38 arbitrary numbers chosen to look nice, whereas Equal Earth accomplishes true equal area with a clean, 4-coefficient polynomial.

Equal Earth is basically Robinson with a more straightforward formula and accurate areas.

kuschku an hour ago

Tbh, I don't see the use case for Robinson when Winkel-Tripel exists. For almost all use cases where you need a political world map, Winkel-Tripel is the better choice.

Equal earth also has its uses, it's a neat and clean map, but has more distortion in shape, which might be undesirable.

mc32 15 hours ago

I'm partial to the Goode Homolosine projection, next is whatever NatGeo standardized on. Of course, the best is an actual globe --but decent sized ones are too expensive and the beach ball ones are just not very well made.

gumby 15 hours ago

“Robinson projection” makes me think of Canadian fasteners.

MengerSponge 14 hours ago

https://xkcd.com/977/

I have a Waterman on my wall :)

DrSAR 3 hours ago

cool - you want to grab a coffee some time?

polski-g 7 hours ago

That is the best one, no idea why its not standard.

saaaaaam 4 hours ago

It’s West Wing coming true again. “Give me $200 and it’s done!”

https://youtu.be/QMlp8BeBJgg

samizdis 15 hours ago

For quite a few years, and because I don't have a globe, I've turned to MapFight [0] to get a good idea of size/area comparisons for countries, significant geographic features and for historical lands/empires.

[0] https://www.mapfight.xyz/

xyzelement 7 hours ago

As the article says, all protections have some distortions and it's just a matter of which ones you chose.

It's totally reasonable and rational for the African association of cartographer to push for this change - it makes their continent look bigger. At the margin, their children can look at the map and feel more significant.

On the flip side, this particular map makes Europe look smaller. So it means that at the margin, European children will look at the map and feel less significant.

It doesn't shock me that the US voted against it. I am surprised that others voted for it, and diminished themselves.

politician 6 hours ago

I'd love to hear from the folks that downvoted this carefully neutral observation.

antonvs 2 hours ago

Because it’s focusing purely on how big continents “look” without even mentioning the issue of actual size. That is not, in any credible sense, “carefully neutral”.

jeroenhd an hour ago

I don't think "European children will look at the map and feel less significant" is a carefully neutral observation. It's an assumption that European children feel superiority because their country is slightly bigger.

If anything, I expect the accurate sizes set the stage for feeling superiority over their ancestors colonizing huge lands while coming from tiny countries.

If we're talking about kids, they should just get taught this type of geography using a globe. You can get an accurate (enough) inflatable globe for like 3 euros, including shipping.

riffraff 3 hours ago

I think the ones who got diminished did it for both idealistic and PR reasons.

I mean, if you're France or the UK, you want to keep good relationships with Africa, and probably do feel some minor guilt about colonialism. This is a vote that costs you little, so it's reasonable you'd side with it.

akie 3 hours ago

Why would anyone object to reducing their inflated size to normal size if it means artificially shrunk continents can be seen at their true size?

LittleShaman 3 hours ago

Its an equal area projection which means it preserves relative area.

Both kids in Europe and Africa will actually end up with a more correct idea of how large both their continents are.

seszett 2 hours ago

> European children will look at the map and feel less significant.

They might instead feel even more more "important" for achieving so much with such a small territory. I know I was somewhat shocked as a kid when I learnt that France was that small country when I had always thought for some reason that it was Greenland (vaguely the same shape I guess, and big enough to feel like it was important. It was certainly not a Mercator projection by the way, Greenland was still a reasonable size on that map on the wall in the classroom).

Instead France was just this small piece of land and it was still so important, and it felt a bit impressive.

I think the thing is people will find a way to feel significant one way or another, and maps probably aren't the main means of doing so.

inemesitaffia 2 hours ago

Most of France is in South America

seszett 2 hours ago

That's not true, about a third of France is in Antarctica if you want to count it, but French Guiana in South America is only a small part of France.

andsoitis 4 hours ago

A more interesting change would be to flip maps “upside down”.

The “north is up” convention isn’t a real thing.

marcus_holmes an hour ago

I ponder whether, if the poles flipped and we survived that relatively intact, there would be a sudden enthusiasm for "South is up".

flohofwoe 36 minutes ago

AFAIK in the past there were all sorts of 'up' conventions, for instance medieval European maps sometimes put East up, because Jerusalem is in the East.

Ancient mediterranean maps often were South up, as well as maps of Islamic cartoghraphers.

There were also Roman road maps which were entirely schematic, more like our modern public transport maps (e.g. such maps only cared about how locations were connected by roads and their distances, but not about any geographical mapping)

rkagerer 16 hours ago

It's great they want to find a projection that better represents the real geography, but at the end of the day you're still trying to unwrap a sphere onto a rectangle. Personally I feel the schools mentioned here would get better mileage out of buying (more) old fashioned globes, and encouraging the kids to learn geography that way.

scotty79 6 hours ago

Since we are moving away from print and towards screens, shouldn't we be just using actual globes?

bawolff 6 hours ago

Screens are still 2D objects requiring projections.

scotty79 6 hours ago

yeah, but when people are free to spin and zoom the virtual globe they understand perfectly how the projection relates to the real object, which they don't when it comes to maps

jameshart 5 hours ago

With computer generated maps, you can just always use a minimally distorting conical or polar projection centered on the exact point you’re focusing on.

That also happens to be broadly what you would get looking straight down at the earth from above that point, which seems like it would also be the least confusing option.

snowwrestler 4 hours ago

Yes. Specially, touch enabled screens with dynamically rendered graphics.

The Google Maps app on my iPhone at one point years ago switched to having a globe as its base, like Google Earth. It was great.

Then Google switched it back to Mercator. But you can scroll infinitely to the left or right, so its base is actually now “Mercator rolled into a tube.” Somehow that’s even worse!

scotty79 4 hours ago

Damn, I knew I've seen google maps going to globe after zooming out, but when I checked today it didn't. I wonder why they rolled that back.

Fortunately Google Earth is still a sphere not a cyllinder.

edflsafoiewq 17 minutes ago

The projection you see with your eyes is actually not that great in a sense. You can only see half of the world at a time and it's quite distorted as you move towards the edge. Also on a computer you should be able to "spin" any map projection, not just a globe.