Flights cancelled at UK airports due to ATC issue (bbc.com)
dtf 15 hours ago
8by3 15 hours ago
Betelbuddy 15 hours ago
reactordev 14 hours ago
ukraina768768 14 hours ago
clickety_clack 14 hours ago
tosti 5 hours ago
demibabs 13 hours ago
librasteve 4 hours ago
illwrks 15 hours ago
ktallett 15 hours ago
d1sxeyes 13 hours ago
Compensation yeah, only applies if the reason for the delay/cancellation was under the airline's control. Nats down is pretty clearly a reason to reject compensation claims.
Daviey 10 hours ago
junofan 14 hours ago
petercooper 14 hours ago
illwrks 13 hours ago
d1sxeyes 13 hours ago
That gets them off the hook for even second order effects. No harm throwing in a claim though, there's no penalty for having a claim turned down.
Dayshine 13 hours ago
d1sxeyes 2 hours ago
illwrks 12 hours ago
illwrks 13 hours ago
The legislation is on the link below, it might be worth a once-over with your chat bot of choice to understand out if your circumstances are covered:
Hard_Space 13 hours ago
In particular it pointed me to authority docs declaring that if a flight is 5+ hours late, you can refuse to fly, reclaim the money and exit the airport. So when the next update said that the flight had been bumped 9 hours, I had all I needed to secure that and went home. Two hours later, the app announced the flight was cancelled.
Sometimes (really a lot) I want to kick GPT's/Claude's/Gemini's collective rear ends. And then there are times like these, when, with me in a funk, AI cuts straight through to the essential knowledge I need and lowers the temperature.
AnimalMuppet 13 hours ago
What jurisdiction? EU? (I would love for that to be true in the US, but I bet it isn't...)
ericmay 13 hours ago
- US airlines do not pay cash for delays
- You’re entitled to a full refund for a significant delay if you choose not to travel
- Full refunds are paid within 7 business days for cards (20 calendar days for other payment methods)
- Paid extras (baggage, upgrades) are refundable if you didn’t receive them
- Airline policy dictates reimbursement for meals, hotels, and other expenses after a delay
"A refund for significant delays or changes to your flight: You are entitled to an automatic full cash refund (including taxes and fees) if your flight is "significantly changed" for any reason, and you turn down a rebooking offered by the airline. Airlines might push you to accept vouchers and travel credits, but you are entitled to a cash refund. If you do not want a voucher, just tell the airline you prefer to be refunded in cash." - Delays your departure or arrival by 3 hours for domestic flights and 6 hours for international ones,
- Changes to your departure or arrival airports,
- Increases the number of connections
- Downgrades your class of service
- Changes your flight to different airports or aircraft that are less accessible for persons with disabilities."
[1] https://airadvisor.com/en-us/flight-delay-compensationalexpotato 12 hours ago
I remember on the show Airline (docuseries about Southwest Airways) one of the passengers didn't want to fly and asked for a refund.
One of the employees was shown giving the passenger a refund of, IIRC, $27 in cash (b/c she bought the ticket in cash).
Hard_Space 2 hours ago
Flights starting out from the EU and going anywhere (EU or beyond).
Flights coming into the EU from anywhere. If the plane at any point is set to land in the EU, it's covered.
yeputons 29 minutes ago
tom1337 12 hours ago
ifwinterco 4 hours ago
Personally I would not
tom1337 4 hours ago
surgical_fire 14 hours ago
Source: Me, stuck in an airport, having witnessed numerous flights destined to London canceled throughout the day.
doublerabbit 15 hours ago
"We are truly sorry for the ongoing flight disruption" is what infuriates the situation; when words have no meaning behind the phase. Pixelated hold-music I am sure is designed to make you rage further.
ktallett 15 hours ago
Daviey 15 hours ago
Worst part is, likely no compensation as it isn't the airlines "fault".
dylan604 15 hours ago
donalhunt 14 hours ago
On a recent trip (when I encountered issues on every leg — cancellations, delays, missed connections, you name it), it is clear that airlines are incentivised to not communicate delays until it is clear the delay can't be recovered. In one case, at the airline's hub, the airport displays were showing a 2 hour delay and their app showed on-time departure (to the point I had to go and ask which source to trust). Having been a frequent flyer in the past I was able to determine that the delay was likely (but airlines can swap in equipment at hubs and mitigate the delay).
Once you do have a delay the ripples are complex to handle. You have some passengers that were meant to connect to other flights. You have some that won't travel at all die to the cancellation. You then have 100+ people who you somehow have to accommodate in the coming days when flight loads are hopefully already 90+%.
To be fair to my airline, their app was actually great at offering me a rebooking option the following day when my flight was cancelled. Unfortunately, the option I selected resulted in a non-direct flight with a transfer time that was impossible in reality (shouldn't have been offered in my opinion). I was literally rebooked 5mins after they declared the flight cancelled, skipped the queues back in the departure area (I don't think the local service agents even knew about the app) and drove home to my family for an extra night.
ccppurcell 14 hours ago
watwut 14 hours ago
Plus, imo, they dont know what exactly will happen. There is likely whole bunch of negotiations and replannings going on in background with unsure results.
jdlshore 14 hours ago
chairmansteve 14 hours ago
exe34 14 hours ago
ljf 14 hours ago
Scare quotes are an Americanism that is gaining traction her, but normally we use it for quoting speach.
technothrasher 13 hours ago
Daviey 14 hours ago
It blows my mind that consumers have lots of protection from the airline, but we have no protection from ATC failures.
As it happens, flight just got cancelled.. so airline is responsible for hotel and rebook. Which is also unfair on them.
colechristensen 15 hours ago
What do you hope to accomplish with the phone call?
Failures happen, does it make a difference if there's someone in charge feeling a strong emotion about it? Do the call center staff have to feel genuine guilt as if their mediocre job somehow made them personally responsible?
Being angry is just as useless as faking being sorry, all they're doing is acknowledging a screwup in an automated message. Give them a break.
lbriner 15 hours ago
blitzar 14 hours ago
watwut 14 hours ago
Daviey 3 hours ago
There's also placebo buttons in many offices for aircon/heating.
tialaramex 13 hours ago
Also of course outside of a junction the control system has no reason to stop the vehicular traffic if nobody demands to cross. So even in the middle of the day the only reason somebody who refuses to press the button can ever cross is that other people will press the button.
StanislavPetrov 13 hours ago
For example, I was recently at the hospital to pick up a friend who was due to be discharged that day. I arrived in their room, spoke briefly with the attending nurse who said it would be a long while before the patient was discharged (as it always is at hospitals) and sat down to wait. After a couple of hours I checked in with the nurse, who said he was waiting on the social worker. My friend noted that he had already talked to the social worker, and despite her insistence, said that he didn't want or need any sort of nursing or in-home care after discharge. When the nurse heard this, he went back, printed up the discharge papers and we were soon on our way.
Why did this happen? Because job of the social worker is to push the hospital/network's post-discharge nursing and rehab system. Once this was turned down, she had no incentive to stay involved or update the discharge status. The busy nurse had no incentive to pro-actively scrutinize the forms and decide the patient was ready for discharge. The hospital itself (as an organization) had no incentive to speed up the discharge, as they were making tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars from his excellent insurance coverage.
If we had just sat around, and said nothing, we almost certainly would have been there for several more hours, until the next shift of nurses came in and reviewed the patient files. Sometimes you are just screaming into the void but many times it helps to speak up.
colechristensen 13 hours ago
Advocating for your health care can have very large effects, healthcare suffers from a strong lack of someone being in charge of and following your care, it's more like a collection of poorly communicating agents giving you brief spurts of attention somehow leading to a resolution. In other words, folks are barely paying attention to you.
alistairSH 14 hours ago
First one, United flight from IAD to SJU, 4-5 hour delay, mechanical issue, with updates from the gate agent every 45 minutes or so, basically keeping us well apprised of the status of our plane (and when that plane was no longer viable, of the replacement plane and then replacement crew). "Flight crew saw a warning light and needs to talk to company" then "company says try again" then "that didn't work, maintenance crew coming to look at it" then a few more similar updates. No, there was nothing we could do with the info, but it was nice to know the problem was being worked - at least made me feel less out of control.
Second one, Aer Lingus from DUB to IAD, 4 hour delay, mechanical issue, no updates from the gate agent beyond "so sorry, we're delayed another hour" every hour or so. I found this much more frustrating. No, there was nothing I could do either way, but it would have been nice to know a bit more about what was wrong, who was working the problem, etc. This felt more out of control, and more frustrating.
dboreham 14 hours ago
alistairSH 14 hours ago
mcmcmc 14 hours ago
gspr 14 hours ago
ryandrake 14 hours ago
SoftTalker 14 hours ago
idle_zealot 14 hours ago
donalhunt 13 hours ago
basisword 14 hours ago
exogenousdata 13 hours ago
As a reminder, our shareholders are our primary concern (by law) and staffing trained humans to handle in customer support during unexpected surges isn’t something that can be supported while also funding the €0.05 per share quarterly dividend paid to British Airways share holders on June 29th of this year.
We are not in a rush. If you’d like, try another airline. But they’re all the same.
Beep.”
Animats 13 hours ago
It doesn't have to be that way. Here's Haley Dragoo, former head of the New York Subway's "Twitter Division".[1] She had the sense to insist on a desk in the Rail Control Center, so she could know what was really going on. Down on the working floor, too, not up in the gallery overlooking the control room. She was a few meters from the people directly running the subway.
Her point was that the MTA was "good at monologues" but didn't interact well. So she posted on the MTA's Twitter account, several hundred times a day. If someone asked a serious question, she'd answer quickly, with actual info. Not sugar-coating the info, just translating from "subway speak". (The operations people talk about location in terms of distance from a reference point at the start of the line, the signal number plate on each signal, but customers think in terms of stations.)
It's very New York to do that.
The MTA has dropped Twitter/X, though. Twitter/X wanted to bill them for using the Twitter/X API, and the MTA will not pay others to distribute their info. So now the MTA uses their own web site and app.
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/01/nyregion/subway-mta-socia...
GolfPopper 11 hours ago
Sure, you can say humans made these decisions. But at scale, that seems like saying our cells choose what we do.
bcraven 13 hours ago
What do you mean, it's ALL inconvenient!
small_model 14 hours ago
dv_dt 13 hours ago
maxrev17 13 hours ago
tialaramex 13 hours ago
The result was universally dismal, these private companies "leak" sewage into previously clean waterways, avoid taxes, divert as much money as possible to their off-shore owners, and of course they insist they constantly need higher and higher charges from their captive customer audience, then "oops" the money is used to pay off wealthy investors and none of the urgently needed work gets done.
librasteve 4 hours ago
dv_dt 3 hours ago
librasteve 3 hours ago
One of the ideas was to widen share ownership to the average bloke. Sure - that never happened (although many average pensioners maybe hold Macquarie via an investment fund).
This "class" actually, in general, are very angry about regulatory capture and we blame the class of woke bien pensant "leaders" who back scratch and go in and out of the media, the lobby, the civil service, NGOs and the privatised utilities scratching each others' backs and telling us all we are idiots. [Rory Stewart being their patron saint]
Lagoon3384_SWE 12 hours ago
Sweden has changed so much in only 15-20 years, I can remember what it was like and I weep.
varispeed 14 hours ago
ifwinterco 14 hours ago
Likely either outsourced or done by people who are comically underpaid considering how important it is
Cthulhu_ 14 hours ago
IshKebab 14 hours ago
stouset 13 hours ago
IshKebab 5 hours ago
gausswho 12 hours ago
lores 12 hours ago
PowPow619 13 hours ago
edoceo 13 hours ago
yehosef 13 hours ago
talhaanwar 14 hours ago
johnnyApplePRNG 14 hours ago
Color me suspicious.
heyitsmedotjayb 14 hours ago
tacheiordache 14 hours ago
heyitsmedotjayb 13 hours ago
somelamer567 13 hours ago
I've spotted Russian trolls in the comments on YouTube blaming Israel for their hybrid attacks in Germany these past few days. They have form, and they have been preparing the information environment for ongoing hybrid aggression against Europe. The key "tell" it's Putin's thugs is because if ANY act is petty, thuggish, dishonourable and implausibly deniable, Russian intelligence are involved.
In any case, the perpetrators will be found and dealt with. The aggressors are dumb (otherwise they wouldn't be aggressors)... and slow learners. Ukraine can look forward to some additional aid in the coming weeks.
dude250711 14 hours ago
dlcarrier 14 hours ago
dewey 14 hours ago
dlcarrier 12 hours ago
Granted, the difference in emissions of either form of traveling are absolutely nothing compared to the emissions of Eyjafjallajökull itself.
stockresearcher 11 hours ago
One thing I’ve noticed is that a lot of comparisons you’ll see will have, for example, a 5-day journey by cruise ship compared with an airline flight covering the same distance. Usually measured not in fuel consumed but carbon emissions. Ok, but shouldn’t the more accurate comparison be a 5-day cruise compared to an airplane trip plus 5 days in a hotel?
dlcarrier 4 hours ago
Anyway, traveling efficiency is a factor of the speed and size of the vessel and the viscosity of what it's traveling through. It's non-linear, and scaling up the vessel size slowly adds efficiency, and speeding up the vehicle or increasing the viscosity quickly reduces efficiency.
Boats have an advantage by getting very big, but a really, really big disadvantage if they go fast, which is why huge boats going slow is their most common use, mostly for cargo, but sometimes for people, when the ship itself can be a destination. Trains can't get very big, but air is much less viscous than water, so they can go a few times faster without major losses. This is why rail is really popular for transporting cargo across the US and Canada, although it's not fast enough for long distance passenger travel.
The absolute peak in energy efficiency comes from a large vessel moving through a very-low viscosity atmosphere, which is what airliners are able to do, by traveling in the stratosphere, eliminating the majority of the drag, and allowing for effectively uncapped speeds. Really, the faster an airplane can travel, the higher it can go, further reducing drag and increasing efficiency. The limit is technological, not physical, but current airplanes traveling around mach 0.8 get very high cruise efficiency from both being large and being in a low-viscosity atmosphere.
reaperducer 14 hours ago
So what? Two things can be bad at the same time. Nobody mentioned ocean liners except you. Why not bring up the greenhouse gases from landfills while you're at it?
Whatabouting everything is so last decade.
monocasa 14 hours ago
maxrev17 13 hours ago
tialaramex 12 hours ago
TomatoCo 14 hours ago
tialaramex 13 hours ago
WG21 (the C++ Standards Committee) only began to allow you to present proposals or attend committee meetings without flying around the world in... 2020 because of Pandemic restrictions.
Video conferencing was one of the technologies in Engelbart's "Mother of all demos" in 1968. Remember that year, not 2008, not even 1998, it was demonstrated in 1968 and yet I bet several readers of this comment have flown on an aeroplane to do something they could have done using video conferencing, almost sixty years later. What a joke.
w4yai 14 hours ago
Havoc 14 hours ago
tcfhgj 14 hours ago
IshKebab 14 hours ago
tcfhgj 13 hours ago
MaxBarraclough 13 hours ago
tcfhgj 13 hours ago
tialaramex 11 hours ago
Likewise because it's big and a lot of it is empty the US does more medical flights than a country like the UK, if a Wyoming multi-millionaire needs urgent treatment in a Californian hospital you're not going to load him into a truck and drive there, you use a plane. This is relatively high risk commercial air travel, it's not quite as dangerous as most GA but there's some get-there-itis because you don't want to abort the flight and let down your patient, and you're often flying one-off journeys whereas the people doing scheduled passenger travel it's like a bus, same route, every time, regular as clockwork, and if things go wrong you just scratch the flight and no harm, no foul.
IshKebab 5 hours ago
tcfhgj 11 minutes ago
foxwell_1959 15 hours ago
gilleain 15 hours ago
contingencies 14 hours ago