Hackers have withdrawn ~4k BTC (~$320M) from the Liquid Federation wallet (twitter.com)
cypherpunks01 2 months ago
Sort of self-fulfilling prophecy if true, that's a leading theory anyhow.
fix: range proof cache bind to asset and scriptpubkey
https://github.com/ElementsProject/elements/commit/c26d719c2...
solenoid0937 2 months ago
> Fixes a number of small issues picked up during LLM scans
greyface- a month ago
The mechanism reminds me of this classic AWS request signature forgery bug from 2008: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=401876
rgbrgb 2 months ago
teravor 2 months ago
alex_duf 2 months ago
This shortens the exploit window
ranger_danger 2 months ago
skinfaxi 2 months ago
simonw 2 months ago
mvdtnz 2 months ago
cool_dude85 2 months ago
Kranar 2 months ago
thephyber 2 months ago
Every time there was a new token that was 80% reminded or was governed by a central company, the original cryptocurrency enthusiasts cried fowl.
Most people don't read the fine print, don't read the founding white papers, and don't care about the differences between the protocols and the networks when they should.
vkou 2 months ago
It's 2026. Show of hands, who here actually uses any of this, and why?
jeremyjh 2 months ago
thephyber 2 months ago
pingupongu 2 months ago
tom_ 2 months ago
kennywinker 2 months ago
wjnc 2 months ago
Where I live it's only theft if there is an intention to unlawfully take ownership of the good. As an example, forgetting to pay in a supermarket lies exactly on that boundary. Take a cart or hide a product and you won't get away. Try to pay, payment fails and you don't notice, walk away and get apprehended and you might convince the judge that you had no intention to unlawfully take ownership.
enoint 2 months ago
embedding-shape 2 months ago
Kind of in-between I'd say. You find a wallet, on a bench, next to sleeping person, and you see lots of other people eying the wallet to take for themselves. You take the wallet to prevent others from taking it essentially.
Not saying these people for sure are whitehats/grayhats, who knows until the funds are returned, but that's basically how grayhatters see themselves.
faitswulff 2 months ago
greyface- 2 months ago
greyface- 2 months ago
https://mempool.space/tx/91271efcbb5ab29abfc38ae635f0644e3ba... "Please contact [email protected]"
https://mempool.space/tx/bd81219691eb1e22475c5985d847fa888c3... from Blockstream, unknown PGP message
https://mempool.space/tx/3a3eac4a26395b8c2563aaf1eb8b1b77798... from attackers, "sending most back to bc1qdlld6antmv4xug242ed83q7k4rqw50cwfns38szx4qu2f4jwaxxsuhwxxr, is that ok"
https://mempool.space/tx/8a444eed65c4584f138e08ee138f61490ef... from Blockstream, PGP-signed "Yes, thank you."
https://mempool.space/tx/83825b2135dd0abac12c9dfe17f29ab81b3... from attackers, "Please fix the bug first. The chain is under risk at latest commit right now. Make sure every node is patched. Then we will transfer the money back safely after confirming the fix. The detail is as follows (encrypted using https://blockstream.com/pgp.txt)." with unknown PGP-encrypted payload
As of writing, no response from Blockstream, and funds are still controlled by the attackers.
pingupongu 2 months ago
How many forks and psyops until people realize?
embedding-shape 2 months ago
And given the world will never run out of fools, you're actually saying cryptocurrencies will continue working forever?
mhitza 2 months ago
Some of these people with the moral integrity of "quick buck at everyone else's expense" maybe won't stop until they go bankrupt or severly in debt. Might be a self-selective environment at this point.
pingupongu a month ago
People need to call them for what they are.
TZubiri 2 months ago
lmz 2 months ago
dotancohen 2 months ago
The coin fanboys will argue that the bankers and government were criminals as well.
thephyber 2 months ago
dotancohen 2 months ago
peab 2 months ago
TZubiri 2 months ago
lostmsu 2 months ago
peab a month ago
groundzeros2015 2 months ago
knorker 2 months ago
nullc 2 months ago
But I gave this issue a quick look based on the transactions and github history.
Underlying issue was related to validation caching. Signatures and proofs are expensive to validate, to improve performance and prevent certain DOS attacks their validation is cached. It's important that the key used in the cache capture everything that goes into the validation decision (though to prevent some attacks its important not too much goes into the key, or an attacker can flood with valid proof attacked to insignificantly different transactions).
It appears to me that there was a longstanding vulnerability-- stemming back to the introduction of multiple-asset-support-- which could cause a consensus split/ddos. But on a lazy review I can't come up with any way of translating it into theft. I see how someone could make an invalid transaction that would be falsely accepted by nodes that have cache state from a constructed prior transaction, but the ways I can come up with results in the invalid transaction just burning assets--- not directly very useful. [Big asterisks on the non obviously exploitable here, I've only thought about it for a minute or two and I really know fairly little about assets support in Liquid-- but exploiting it would require being able to create a fake 'shadow' asset with the a generator that is the negation of a real asset.]
In any case: This was recently fixed, but the "fix" introduced a hash collision vulnerability: The new fields added to the hash were not delimited. Failing to include type information like lengths in hashes is a perennial problem in cryptographic protocols.
Imagine you have a protocol where you sign a {comment, command} tuple, each a string. If the protocol computes the hash by just concating the command and comment and they're variable length fields, then you could get a signature of {"boring comment containing dangerous command", "boring command"} but then present it to someone as {"boring comment containing ","dangerous command boring command"} and have the signature pass. That sort of thing.
This new vulnerability has a somewhat straight forward path to exploitation and prints funds out of thin air.
Based on some of the public comments about nodes rejecting the attack transaction, I'm guessing they rolled out the "fix" to the federation in advance of publishing the changes because they seem to have accepted an attack that everyone else was still rejecting.
Advanced private deployment of a 'fix' might have gave them the confidence to drop the fix on github with little fanfare as it was "already fixed", but doing so painted a target on the issue that remained. Interestingly, off the shelf open weight AI like Kimi K3 immediately identify the new vulnerability without any particularly artful prompting. Makes me wonder if "safe" AI played a role in the introduction of the new, more serious, vulnerability.
Interestingly, it looks like the funds are being returned: https://mempool.space/tx/3a3eac4a26395b8c2563aaf1eb8b1b77798...
I'm going to guess that anyone who actually knows more has their hands busy dealing with the return of the funds. I'm not sure if anyone has ever taken and then returned 1/3rd of a billion dollars worth of assets before.
nullc 2 months ago
georgemcbay 2 months ago
More than enough to buy yourself a pardon if you get caught.
thephyber 2 months ago
aizk 2 months ago
killingtime74 2 months ago
enoint 2 months ago
Daviey 2 months ago
mitxela 2 months ago
embedding-shape 2 months ago
recursivecaveat 2 months ago
etothepii 2 months ago
the_real_cher 2 months ago
kennywinker 2 months ago
etothepii 2 months ago
the_real_cher a month ago
pingupongu 2 months ago
Get rid of it.
MaxikCZ 2 months ago
pingupongu a month ago
harrouet 2 months ago
embedding-shape 2 months ago
harrouet 2 months ago
But I see how polarized you are about the topic.
embedding-shape 2 months ago
Ok, but who were you quoting before? I too see how polarized your view seems to be, given you started this conversation with arguing against yourself for some reason.
harrouet 2 months ago
How so ?
Meanwhile, what you qualified as blog spam is actually proving to be written by a human spending too much time answering your rant.
embedding-shape 2 months ago
Who said any of the parts you quoted in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49594757?
It looks like you made up all of those lines.
harrouet 2 months ago
embedding-shape 2 months ago
Generally, we use quotes here for actual quotes, not quoting stuff we've read in other newspapers or on reddit or whatever, but real verbatim quotes.
I think it used to be a proper guidelines back in the day, or at least people got really up in their arms if you used quote syntax for things that weren't actually verbatim quotes.
But besides that, what's the point? Why share other's viewpoints you don't even agree with, so you can argue against them yourself? Why not wait until someone who actually has those viewpoints, share them? Or even better, why not just say nothing at all?
toasty228 2 months ago
tancop a month ago
Of course you need to use a well designed network like Ethereum or Solana for that, not a random Bitcoin sidechain controlled by a committee of BTC miners and shady VCs. This is a problem with Liquid not DeFi.
harrouet a month ago
But do both parties need to agree to the reversal? Then that's really trivial... and not prone to work against fraudsters.
I suspect that a legally-mandated transaction reversal supposes that an authority has got power over the system -- which is against DeFi philosophy.
atian 2 months ago
galkk 2 months ago
gruez 2 months ago
galkk 2 months ago
medellin 2 months ago
xyst 2 months ago
fxwin 2 months ago
knorker 2 months ago
bagels 2 months ago
antonvs 2 months ago
Theft doesn’t have to involve any convincing.
This is a pretty basic distinction. Perhaps you were thinking of “fraud”?
s1artibartfast 2 months ago
brador 2 months ago
fxwin 2 months ago
mvdtnz 2 months ago
pingupongu 2 months ago
Incipient 2 months ago
jeremyjh 2 months ago
atian 2 months ago