Restoring 5 GHz Wi-Fi on an LG C5 by changing its webOS region (github.com)

69 pointsby hawshemi5 days ago67 comments

zamadatix 5 days ago

It should probably be noted changing the regulatory region of an RF device may result in you using illegal frequencies in your area depending on the combination of which region you're in and which region you're setting it to.

BlackRabbit1 5 days ago

You mean that this helicopter hovering about my home is looking out for me?

_davide_ 5 days ago

Oh no, again

Avamander 5 days ago

If it's a station (client) then it's unlikely, as long as your APs are compliant.

With some chipsets it can end up being entirely ass-backwards - if you use an Intel WiFi chipset, a nearby AP can broadcast the wrong region and cripple your connectivity.

Outdated regulatory databases and firmware efforts by vendors have generally made both illegal and legal usage beyond ch 1-12 at 2.4GHz rather difficult.

embedding-shape 5 days ago

Yeah, not sure if author knows, they certainly don't share if they understand this or not, but these things aren't available because the some governments say those frequencies are illegal to use. Turkey for example has multiple frequencies under 5Ghz WiFi that is banned, hence consumer don't get to use 5Ghz WiFi. If you change that, you're breaking the law and you might get a visit, depending on how hardcore they are about the rules. Tend to be pretty strict and swift payback when it comes to using frequencies you shouldn't, as they're used for other stuff and easily seen when other traffic appears.

delamon 5 days ago

> Turkey for example has multiple frequencies under 5Ghz WiFi that is banned, hence consumer don't get to use 5Ghz WiFi.

Are you sure? According to wiki, there are plenty allowed 5GHz channels in Turkey.

embedding-shape 5 days ago

> Are you sure? According to wiki, there are plenty allowed 5GHz channels in Turkey.

Pretty, yeah. Doesn't the same wiki page list a bunch of not-allowed 5Ghz channels too? Or only allowed ones?

I didn't mean to claim it's completely banned, but some channels are, which leads to some hardware makers to just eschew the entire 5Ghz stuff instead of just specific channels, like what this submission is about.

izacus 5 days ago

This is about a WiFi client - on WiFi networks the AP station chooses frequency and manufacturers/driver writers fuck up legal frequency lists and regulatory codes all the time.

yardie 5 days ago

It's wifi. The client and the base have to negotiate a channel they both can see. If the AP is compliant for it's region than you can assume the client will have to be as well.

BTW, I'm someone that use to by US region coded 802.11b wifi devices to get the 13th channel. Except for exploring, it was rarely useful since none of my other devices could connect on it.

mixdup 5 days ago

You will still be making transmissions on the illegal frequencies even if there is no one on the other end of the connection

StrLght 5 days ago

TV is a client. If I remember correctly, it shouldn't transmit anything (unless connected) other than probe requests during active scanning.

Which could still be illegal, but I don't think anyone will realistically investigate a low-power device sending a few packets occasionally.

apefulsin 5 days ago

That depends what else is on the channel that is the reason for it not being available for wifi. In some places, it's a military radar and they will definitely investigate.

zamadatix 5 days ago

5 replies saying the same things appeared so I'll respond to myself rather than try to pick one:

A TV is indeed typically a client. Or station, if you want to dust off your CWNA certificate. One should still include the warning when sharing such projects/advice because of considerations like:

- With no explanations or warnings, the reader may very reasonably apply the same type of fix across several of their badly preconfigured devices. Now when they extend their Windows laptop display wirelessly to the TV over Miracast (a direct exchange this TV supports), both devices will agree they can do so on the bands in whatever region they were set to.

- It's not safe to assume only the AP needs and has a correct regulatory db or regulatory domain set. APs for the wrong region are sold/imported, do not always have correct regulatory dbs, and can also be similarly misconfigured. Clients can also peer to peer or hotspot. In general, you should fairly be warned you're removing one of the 2 sides to the safety system and "the channel I wanted appeared" is not the same thing as "I fixed the buggy channel config on the device".

- As some have pointed out, clients can perform either an active or passive scan based on, basically, what the system feels makes the most sense at the time. An active scan will result in probes across the supported channel list, so even if all of the above is true, people should be aware even a lone station can still transmit on all of the bands it is told to support.

I'm not against fixing buggy devices but I am against telling people the fix is to set it to Germany without warning they may result in using illegal frequencies in your area if not carefully considered. A muuuch cooler & safer fix might have been to patch the supported channel list for the given country to be correct rather than patch the region to be wrong, but that may have been harder to pull off.

dcow 5 days ago

And what people also don't realize is that you can run a non-compliant AP. I am 99% certain the legal framework places the responsibility on the clients and the APs (or at least the absence of a consistent one biases towards a conservative stance: i.e. not assuming it's only the AP's responsibility). If I am a massive multinational conglomerate and I ship clients that know they're in a regulated region but connect on illegal bands anyway to APs broadcasting them, then that seems to expose me to unnecessary risk. You can bet I'm going to take measures so that if this ever gets tested in court I can say "yes our software takes reasonable measures to not transmit on channels we know to be illegal in your country, your honor".

flacebo 5 days ago

Nice workaround. Feels pretty stupid that you have to do that. Sounds like they choose the easy way to comply with the regulations. They could probably just have blocked certain frequency ranges.

Although I'm still fully convinced that TVs just got worse for the consumer since they became "smart". My extended family had to replace perfectly good TVs three times because the new version of a streaming app did not work anymore.

Add stuff like running ads on an expensive TV, running spyware that sends screenshots even of your HDMI source back to the company (possibly exposing your passwords and everything), the continuous nagging about new versions and ToS (with dark patterns to accept sending voice data home), and I feel like the only sane option is to never ever give internet connection to these TVs. Use a separate device for streaming.

artisinal 5 days ago

Recently when I started an LG TV, there was an unskippable ad for a local delivery service. I pressed the home button and it told me "Smart services not available right now". After the ad I could go to the home menu.

If this was my own TV it would have been thrown in the trash.

simondotau 5 days ago

If my LG TV did that I would return it under Australian Consumer Law.

ValentineC 4 days ago

> My extended family had to replace perfectly good TVs three times because the new version of a streaming app did not work anymore.

Were they not able to just buy a separate dongle/Apple TV-esque device to use through HDMI?

KetoManx64 4 days ago

It was easier to just buy a new TV than to do an online search for alternatives or Roku it seems.

kelnos 5 days ago

I have a LG TV, but I do not allow it to connect to a wifi network. I don't trust LG, and expect them to do something anti-consumer to my hardware at some point, or to spy on me.

This particular failure is a blessing in disguise.

throwa356262 5 days ago

They do.

I dont understand why EU is not stepping in. LG literally spies on you by capturing screenshot of whatever you watch and send them to the mothership. This includes images and videos from your private USB drive.

graemep 5 days ago

> I dont understand why EU is not stepping in.

The surveillance state is not stepping in to stop spying? This is stuff they can use to profile you. The EU Commission is very keen on Chat Control and has pushed a lot of surveillance laws.

Governments only protect privacy when there is a lot of pressure to do so.

kwanbix 5 days ago

I don't get it, why can't they just change the region in the settings?

I was able to on my LG. Nice TV, worst firmware ever. It had an issue with Wifi. It basically will not connect once or so a week. You needed to change, you guess it, the region. So I will keep changing from Germany to Spain to Ireland to Germany to Etc. I sent pictures, videos, emails, links to youtube videos to LG support, they wouldn't care, they would just deny it. In the end I bought a Fire TV Max and that was it. But what a horrible support experience LG never again.

kotaKat 5 days ago

"This project was born out of accidentally changing the area option to EU in the EZ-Adjust service menu on a US TV. The factorymanager binary enforces a region lock (geolock) that prevents reverting the area code — even through the same EZ-Adjust menu that was used to change it"

Sounds like service mode shenanigans. I'm curious though - does switching the TV to EU even do anything 'better' privacy-wise or anything, or do you just get trapped in that 'region' for services?

jonatron 5 days ago

Maybe ask in the openlgtv discord if you want to know more about this sort of thing

pzmarzly 5 days ago

If LG ever removes or restricts Developer Mode, I am selling my TV the same day.

functionmouse 5 days ago

new locked down spyware TVs are so cheap, who would want to buy and move -your- locked down spyware TV?

ctippett 5 days ago

Jailbroken LG TVs are the panacea of locked down spyware TVs.

Although like OP, if I ever lose the ability to run root, then that's the day I look for a new TV (lord have mercy).

msh 5 days ago

I don’t think I will ever again connect a tv to the internet

mjlee 5 days ago

I wonder how long it will be until TVs have some sort of cellular modem built in. Maybe some form of LPWAN - your TV may not be connected to the internet, but odds are there's one in range that is.

flacebo 5 days ago

Damn... The faraday cage around my TV will worsen the picture quality.

kosinus 5 days ago

I was playing around with LG TV homebrew a while back. Still have the same TV, and in the age of AI, I'm considering putting a coding agent to work on a dump of the filesystem to see what it'd take to run stock Linux on it.

ctippett 5 days ago

There's an active Discord server (I know, I know...) for LG's jailbreak community and there are some incredibly talented folk on there who know the ins and outs of webOS to a crazy level. I'd recommend checking it out if you're interested in that sort of thing.

mynameajeff 5 days ago

Not sure if you can post the full link but what's the /invitecode for the server? I'd actually be interested in joining since I've been interested in this

ctippett 5 days ago

Happy to share it! The community is called OpenLGTV[1]. You'll find a link to their Discord on their website.

  > OpenLGTV is a collective, non-commercial project for legal reverse engineering and research of LG (Smart and non Smart) TVs firmware, which is partially Open Source.
  > The main goal of the project is to improve the functionality of the TVs by adding new features, fixing bugs and providing new software.

[1] https://openlgtv.github.io

Marsymars 5 days ago

Presumably someone who is looking for a $50 TV.

dominotw 5 days ago

what do you do with it? coincenteally i just bought a the tv in the post last week.

pzmarzly 5 days ago

1. A Windows app to change volume, brightness, switch input. I used to have PC connected to TV. I also was considering making Android app to replace my TV remote.

2. https://github.com/webosbrew/youtube-webos

3. https://github.com/MoazSalem/litefin

4. I promised myself to install LEDs one day https://houndhillhomestead.com/diy-ambilight/

rootsudo 5 days ago

Since you have ssh access to webos, how is it to remove the telemetry, ads and other such? Is webos better than a generic TCL for such antics? The TCL can be rooted and is android based but I’m not up to date on current rom configurations, etc.

ctippett 5 days ago

My TV is several years old at this point, but I've never had a single ad show up on it. Telemetry is easily blocked via DNS filters and the homebrew software blocks system updates.

Modern versions of Apple TV, Plex, Disney, etc all work fine. The only time I ever watch YouTube is on the TV because it has SponsorBlock baked into it so I never see an ad there either.

physhster 5 days ago

Android had (has?) a similar issue with the hotspot feature where it will not turn on in a region where 5 GHz is more regulated than in the US but will also not give you any warning about it.

hawshemi 5 days ago

yea... LG policies are real shitty. I didn't have 5Ghz Wifi on my TV. why? cuz I'm in middle east!

sorenjan 5 days ago

Sounds more like a legal issue with permitted spectrum use than an arbitrary LG policy.

jhfdbkofdchk 5 days ago

"Saudi Arabia's CITC hates this one weird trick!"

hawshemi 5 days ago

Well, I have Sony and Samsung (both middle east regions) but they dont have any restrictions in these areas. I only see these kinda quirks with LG all the times.

Avamander 5 days ago

It's more likely an out-of-date regulatory database that predates 5GHz being allowed in those regions.

ValdikSS 5 days ago

Linux's wireless-regdb has proper 5G regulatory information for at least SA, CY, EG, QA, at least since 2017, just checked. The TV in the repo is 2025 year model.

preponderant-pa 5 days ago

It seems like OP lives in Iran. It seems like at least a good part of the 5GHz band is available there. [1]

[1] https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-wireless/msg262022.html

SlightlyLeftPad 5 days ago

Is the wifi spec or perhaps chip required for it subject to export control?

xyst 5 days ago

lg used to be a great tv/monitor manufacturer. Even webOS was praised amongst users. Their OLED displays were top notch.

Then almost overnight. They have been making very awful decisions across all layers.

Just another case of enshittification or something else?

0xc133 5 days ago

Why the hell would you ever let a TV on any network?

bcraven 5 days ago

So I can run Plex, iPlayer, Netflix, etc etc

The majority of content that people watch is distributed over the internet, so our TVs are connected thus.

bigstrat2003 5 days ago

True, but it's far better to buy a streaming box (Apple TV, etc) and hook that up to the Internet. Not only does TV software serve you ads, it just plain sucks.

expedition32 5 days ago

I disagree the inbuilt Netflix app is way better than any streaming box.

Apple TV serves ads (it's literally called Apple for fuck sake), costs money and extra electricity.

iAMkenough 5 days ago

I disagree, the Apple TV Netflix app is rock solid.

Apple’s App Store review process is more robust and avoids things like 90% of webOS apps giving private bidders access to use your home internet connection through a proxy running on your LG TV.

flacebo 5 days ago

That is not my experience, although I haven't tried Apple TV. It's usually the same app, just running on faster hardware (most TVs are slower than a 30$ streaming box). Also it costs much less overall if you don't have to replace your TV because of some streaming app update. If you change your TV regularly enough that this has not been the issue for you yet, then I dare to assume cost shouldn't really be an issue for you. Of course if you can accept all the shitty things TV manufacturers are shoving down our throat, nobody is going to stop you.

osndiendkwn 5 days ago

> Apple TV serves ads (it's literally called Apple for fuck sake)

1. No, it does not. The apps themselves do, but that’s up to each service provider. The hardware/system itself does not serve you ads.

2. Being called “Apple” is precisely how you know you have an experience at least a thousand times better than anything your TV has built in.

pier25 5 days ago

So you prefer give your data for free to the tv manufacturer?

And tvs show ads too btw.

If you’re worried about electricity costs the Apple tv is probably a lot more efficient than the chip in the tv.

joshstrange 5 days ago

Not at all my experience. Some apps themselves have ads but I never see ads. My Apple TV is a Plex/YouTube client exclusively where I see 0 ads.

mavamaarten 5 days ago

So I can turn it on using Home Assistant reliably.