EVE Online moves to Python 3 (eveonline.com)

less task, let stack

I too would love to know the answer to this question. I loved Eve as a teenager / young adult. It was a brilliant burst of nerdery, and the first time I ever met someone who wrote linux kernel modules for a living.

I sometimes think about logging in (I think I ragequit likely in a pod inside a wormhole in the middle of nullsec) and then I realise that way madness (and much sunk time) lies.

I started more than 15 years ago and recently got back into it. I would say that game has stagnated a lot more, character numbers may seem like it isn't that low but in reality most people who play it has around 5 accounts which they multibox with. So number of actual people who play it went really down. It is looking bleak for the future, and i can confidently say that it is all CCP's fault (called Fenris Creations now). They started aiming for short term gains and they probably realized themselves long ago it won't last so they started investing in other IP's but they were all mega failures so far.

I’ve played off and on for years - even multiple accounts, lots of hours, and a very helpful org, there was too much to do, and I quickly felt overwhelmed. I just can’t imagine them getting many new players, but it’s clear the game is 20+ years of upgrades and content.

I played in the early days and quit to have a life, came back for a bit to check it out.

Basically the community is people checking it out, bots, and the terminally addicted multi boxing 30 accounts.

The thing I miss the most about Eve Online is the immersive free market economy. I long for a true, in-depth economic MMO more than the space veneer around the order book. Buy low, sell high. Specialize in industry, trading, transportation. Add a little bit of light PvP to inject chaos and it's more fun than playing the stock market.

(I am actually designing such a game, but I'm open to suggestions)

My main activity in the game was stealing loot from under carebears' noses to sell for profit. A true rat scouring the battlefields for scraps. That must say a lot about me.

It's one guy and 40 alts now

I started in 2004 and played on and off until 2015 with a quick stint in 2020.

It was amazing in the early days, it felt like nothing else. I had a background in Ultima Online and Dark Age of Camelot. I liked PVP and I wanted full loot drop on kill.

EVE online has many times been referred to as the spiritual successor of UO, what made it really special however was the one server architecture (until China shard).

My name was Dieter Rams—I ganked, scammed and griefed. I probably made a lot of people quit the game; this was the appeal. I wanted to play a game where I could be the villain (successfully).

This was the original trailer for the game, in my opinion the true vision: https://youtu.be/GwpgXFA3UQk

Over the years it lost its soul as the internet grew, social media became more prevalent and information disseminated more rapidly (watch madseasonshow on youtube for a great coverage on this topic) around the optimal ways to play etc.

All MMOs suffered for this, you could look everything up before doing anything and so the sense of discovery and adventure was lost. The frontier was no longer undiscovered, and once pay to win came into play everything came off the rails.

The developer made this video in 2014:

This is EVE - Uncensored https://youtu.be/AdfFnTt2UT0

This is when I quit for real or as the EVE players say "won EVE".

A better comedic version of the video is this one by Honorable Third Party (typical EVE humor): This is REALLY EvE https://youtu.be/LmS9vcVNr5A

I came back in 2020 for a month but it's like that saying you can't step into the same river twice. I was older but the game had also changed so much. Other players were pressuring me to multibox (play multiple accounts), it felt terrible.

I knew a guy who played 30 characters at the same time, his setup was a technical marvel but it made me sad what gaming had become. There was a similar issue with buffbots in Dark Age of Camelot.

The fact that EVE needs a new player tutorial says everything you need to know about the state of the game (and gaming in general). Everyone needs a lot of handholding these days, in 2004 you were just thrown into the universe with nothing but the chat and other players to help you out.

Figuring things out was part of the game.

There were no YouTube guides, no tutorial and no real money to make things easier. The playing field was equal no matter who you were.

The magic was lost because of money, it's always the money in the end.

"Claude, migrate the code. Do it fast. Make no mistakes."

  limping, halting, lame, crippled 
  c. 347 CE – 420 CE, Hieronymus, Vulgate Matthew 11:5:
  Caeci vident, claudi ambulant […]  The blind see, the lame walk […]

Knowing game codebases, I'm guessing their test coverage was not fantastic. Agents weren't gonna get it done.

yeah I'm sure they never considered AI

Not sure if it's worth it. I don't see them complaining about speed and they use specific python dependencies then they would need to translate that to rust also.

Ladybird situation is wild...

Second this but with Go

I’ve been doing this on a large system I’m building. Anything that takes longer than an hour to run, processes a high rate of events (maybe >5/s averaged over a day) or has downstream gpu waiting for it.

Python + tests cross compiled to rust has huge benefits for memory footprint and secondly cpu.

It’s allowing me to achieve wonders on a small amount of hardware.

> modern Python went in a somewhat different direction with asyncio,

I'll say more, it went the wrong direction. I see async thing in Python as a step backwards. For some reason Guido heard of Twisted and deferreds and somehow got influenced by it, and here we are with "async def" and "await" sprinkled all over the place.

I mean, we had stackless, eventlet, gevent, we could have started something from that. We even had the example of Erlang and with a much better concurrency pattern. Go went with goroutines and channels and in retrospect made the right choice, not as good as Erlang/Elixir imo but still better than sprinkling async everywhere.

Or insane

Maybe the bank bailouts were a mistake

I have run into other large (well known) financial companies on 2.x as well. They were using our old unsupported SDK and some long planned and communicated service API change broke them. They could not update to any recent SDK. I did gently point out their python version was 10+ years out of date.

if anything, it only shows just how bad breaking backward compatibility is - py3 was released in '06, 20 years ago

From long ago memory: in Python 2, 1 / 2 did integer division. You had to do something like 1 / 2.0 if you wanted floating point division.

For me it is quite bad, but just we are now used to it. In the same way that when you ask Windows users about all the bugs and problems they have with their system, they often say that they don't have any. And ten seconds later, will click "ok" on a random crash popup they didn't even read the content of.

Yeah I dunno, the first time I tried to use asyncio I ran into a bug that nobody knew how to solve. Can't remember what it was but generally if I use something for the first time and immediately hit a bug... Yeah I'm not using that thing if I can help it.

I mean that's true for Python in general, but sadly these days you can't really avoid it.

asyncio has always looked interesting, but whenever I have run into a problem which could use asyncio I have always gone with multiprocesses instead. I am not sure if async would makes my code easier for others to read and debug, and none of my problems seems to be of the kind where process overhead would make a noticeable difference in performance.

Did you find readability to be improved by going async?

Jan 1 1984

At the scale of EVE - no.

If you enjoyed the industry part, you may find https://prosperousuniverse.com/ even better than Eve.

Eve still is great - haven't had time lately but I got really into it last year and had a blast

Pangram: "100% of this text is AI generated."